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English leverage bits.. A little help?

11K views 17 replies 6 participants last post by  ShannonSevenfold 
#1 ·
So I spoke with my trainer about finding an English bit for my new horse. He was trained Western and goes in a plain Western curb bit with a curb chain. I ride English. So she suggested either a solid-mouthed Uxeter Kimberwicke (with the two different slots for reins) or a Pelham. Well, I found a Kimberwicke. And I also just found this Pelham - Korsteel Flexi Flavored Mullen Mouth Pelham -5.5-Pink - eBay (item 270457388984 end time Oct-16-09 10:45:32 PDT).

What are opinions on this Pelham? Once I find one of each that I like I will ask my trainer for her final opinion. :D
 
#2 ·
Just because your horse rides in a western curb it doesn't mean you should go to an english curb type bit. Western curbs are to be used neck-reining only, so switching to a curb with contact (english) might make the transition more confusing for the horse.

Here is some information I typed up:


Pelham

For experienced riders only. Uses curb chain action on the horse’s chin. The bridle attaches to the uppermost ring, the snaffle rein attaches to the big ring, the curb rein attaches to the little loosering. The idea with the Pelham is to ride on the snaffle rein 98% of the time, and just “tweak” the curb rein as needed for a little extra “listen to me” power communicated to the horse. A relatively mild bit when used correctly, by that I mean the rider should stay on the snaffle rein only most of the time; the curb rein should not be used in excess. Many riders misuse this bit and/or have a hard time figuring out 4 reins, which is why I labelled it “experienced riders only.”


Kimberwicke

For experienced riders only. Uses a curb chain on the horse’s chin. The bridle attaches to the small vertical-type ring at the top, then the reins attach to either of the slots. This bit is much less refined than a Pelham, when it comes to discussing English curb bits. The problem with the kimberwicke is that you have no refinement, no snaffle rein, therefore no relief from the curb action of the bit. This can be quite bothersome to horses that don’t need the curb action on a bit. I much prefer a Pelham.





 
#3 ·
Well.... wow. Hm. What's this horse like? Is he really strong to the bridle?

I'd say go something waaaaaaay less than either Kimberwicke's or Pelhams!! Does he really need so much leverage?

I would try him out in a regular old snaffle first, if you can. No sense going up to a harsher bit if you really don't need to!
 
#4 · (Edited)
He hates the snaffle type bits. Absolutely. I've been working with my trainer on it and these are the bits she has suggested.

EDIT: I also do know how to use each of these bits correctly. My lesson horses are ridden in these bits. Just thought I'd throw that in there. =)
 
#5 ·
Hmm, I wonder if it's just that he's not used to the contact associated with 'english' riding as opposed to western? In which case something like a Kimberwick/Pelham will only magnify that contact ten fold. But your trainer knows the horse, knows you and knows what pursuits you are looking to accomplish so try what she suggests first. If that fails, I'm sure she will tell you that a process of retraining is in order to teach him to accept a soft contact with a softer bit. :) I hope you didn't think I meant any disrespect by saying try a snaffle first. Just my opinion :)
 
#7 ·
My horse hated a snaffle type bit to and I used a Pelham for a long time, my Pelham had a rather large copper port, and I found my horse was waaaay softer then before. So recently I tried an experiment, I got a medium wire snaffle that was made of copper. My horse is even more responsive to this bit then he was to the Pelham. I think the copper really made a difference and I suggest maybe you try a similiar experiment :)
 
#9 ·
RoyalsRebel - I know exactly what you are saying. =) Trust me, going back to a snaffle was the first thing I tried.

JDI - His teeth were done just a couple of months ago and I'm about 98% sure it is not a saddle fit problem as I have no issues with him when I ride him in his curb with the English saddle. I have tried a single jointed loose ring, a french link loose ring, and a french link eggbutt per some recommendations on here as well as from my trainer.

Void - He seems to like the taste of sweet iron bits over stainless steel, I have noticed that. He accepts the bit better. But he's still no better under saddle.

Any suggestions are welcome. I'm kind of at a loss at this point.
 
#13 ·
Void - He seems to like the taste of sweet iron bits over stainless steel, I have noticed that. He accepts the bit better. But he's still no better under saddle.
Taste wasn't really what I was suggesting. Copper causes a reaction in horses to make them slobber more so then with a sweet iron. At this point since you are at a loss, I'd just try it anyways.
 
#10 ·
Don't expect to change from western to english and have it be 100% right off the bat; it's a completely different way of riding. Your horse needs to learn to accept contact and direct reining, and that in itself is a boatload of training. I would pick a bit that he seems ok with and get down to the root of the problem - training - rather than the "surface" problem - the bit.
 
#11 ·
He may just not know what to do with the contact as he's been trained western... Did his old owner ever ride him english?

What about a mullen mouth like JDI mentioned? A straight bar, w/ no joints. Could be the breaking action of the snaffles he doesn't like. A straight bar mullen mouth might give you a better idea if that's the issue.... just somewhere to start and you could go from there.
 
#12 ·
That is the reason she suggested either a Kimberwicke or a Pelham with a solid mouthpiece. He seems to do better in non-jointed bits. To my knowledge, he has been ridden English in the past as well as Western. He was also a lesson horse. But after he was sold at the barn's going out of business auction, he fell into the wrong hands and was abused. The people who rescued him had been working with him and found the Western curb to be a bit that he "got along with" alright and never went any further than that as they are Western people.
 
#14 ·
my horse prefers a pelham to any bit. we've tried every bit imaginable and he'll deal with other bits he just prefers the pelham, i really dont have to use the curb bit that much, every now and again when he gets excited or when we're jumping but thats just my horse. personally i think its also cuz he likes to shake the chain when he's bored and standing still lol

but it doesnt hurt to try different things. have u ever thought about trying a myler which has direct reining on each side so you could better aquaint him with that idea
 
#15 ·
Maybe try a myler snaffle with a low port... The mouthpiece won't break like a jointed bit, but has independant side movement and will imitate the mouthpiece on your curb. You can even get snaffles with slots, so if you need that bit of leverage, it is there, and you can slowly wean him off it...

Mouthpiece with a low port:



Mouthpiece with a higher port:

 
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