Hackamore Fitting - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 11:30 AM
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COmpaire the first pic with my pony who wears a bit so is in pain according to Elizabethan87



I can tell you which horse looks happier
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RIDE your horse FORWARDS and keep him STRAIGHT

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post #52 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 11:50 AM
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All bits are painful if used by very uneducated hands. Any training device is painful if used by someone uneducated. Did you know you can break a horses jaw with a mechanical hackamore?? I've seen it done, you can also damage the skin, nerves and bone and their nose. I find most people that are anti-bits are simply just scared of them. They are scared that their hands are not light enough and scared that they will hurt their horse. So they make incorrect assumptions that bits are evil. I have horses that rely on the bit to be ridden. Most of my spade horses are that way, they like the bit, they like the taste and they like playing with the cricket. It has a relaxing effect on them. Saying bits is poor horsemanship is completely wrong IMO. Any trainer I've seen worth a lick uses a bit. My hubby and I have been training professionally for quite a few years now. And we use bits, that doesn't make us bad horseman, people bring horses in from out of state for use to ride. Your horse tossing his head with the bit, is merely a hole in his training or an ill fitting or ill adjusted headstall. Many people overlook the fact that having your headstall adjusted just right is a MAJOR factor in how a horse responds. But the assumptions that bits are evil and poor horsemanship is dead wrong. And good trainer will tell you that a mechanical hackamore is a worthless contraption, and I have to agree..

~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #53 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 12:13 PM
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And just to add, I saw in a post of how a snaffle obstructs the air passage of a horse. Horses can breath out of their mouths! If your worried about obstructing the air passage, keep using a mechanical hackamore.
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~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #54 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses View Post
And just to add, I saw in a post of how a snaffle obstructs the air passage of a horse. Horses can breath out of their mouths! If your worried about obstructing the air passage, keep using a mechanical hackamore.
Edit: they CAN'T breath out of their mouths.

~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #55 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 02:59 PM
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Oh my...

Just to add to the original topic of this thread - here's my horse with an S hackamore:



Don't mind his grumpiness, though, he was in a particularly grumpy mood that day.

I have come a long way, to surrender my shadow to the shadow of my horse.
/James Wright/
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post #56 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 03:34 PM
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I use a little s hackamore on my horse when I am competing in ranch sorting and it's exactly because of what Wanstom says.. I am not confident enough to think that I can ride that fast, making quick and abrupt turns without accidentally pulling or jerking on my horse's mouth. A hackamore makes sense for me to use in this case because I don't want to hurt my horse..alot of people who are beginning this sport (like I am) choose to use their leverage bits and I see them catching their horses in the mouth after being thrown off balance during a quick turn. That being said, there are some amazing riders who's horses' work great in the same circumstances with leverage bits. These riders have amazing balance and quiet aids. There are also riders who have to crank on a hack to get their horse to stop (which is obviously painful as well) and those same horses are much more willing to stop with the gentle pressure of a bit. I think it's all about being aware of your horses comfort. I do ride my horse in a bit occasionally and he works well in that as well. Do what is best for you and your horse. Every horse is different and a hackamore is NOT the best choice for everyone. Enjoy bitless riding but please realize that bits are not inhumane and don't make the people using them correctly feel poorly for their choice just because its not yours...
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post #57 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses View Post
Edit: they CAN'T breath out of their mouths.
The air passage is through the nostrils down the esophagus through the trachea and into the bronchioles (to sum it up, and I left out a few irrelevant organs there) just like in a human being, when you take your tongue and clog your throat with it, the air passage is shut off. Force your tongue into your throat and the epiglottis stops the nasal airway. This anatomy is a part of what I actually do for a living. You would be so surprised at how simply the air passage can be blocked. A hackamore doesn't sit on the nasal bone and cartilage, if fitted properly, it sits behind it. There have been so many scientific studies done on this issue. Show me a scientific study that's been conducted, where the bit is more sufficient and painless. I don't care whose hands it's in, where's the scientific proof?!
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post #58 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Elizabethan87 View Post
The air passage is through the nostrils down the esophagus through the trachea and into the bronchioles (to sum it up, and I left out a few irrelevant organs there) just like in a human being, when you take your tongue and clog your throat with it, the air passage is shut off. Force your tongue into your throat and the epiglottis stops the nasal airway. This anatomy is a part of what I actually do for a living. You would be so surprised at how simply the air passage can be blocked. A hackamore doesn't sit on the nasal bone and cartilage, if fitted properly, it sits behind it. There have been so many scientific studies done on this issue. Show me a scientific study that's been conducted, where the bit is more sufficient and painless. I don't care whose hands it's in, where's the scientific proof?!
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And in the picture, your hackamore is NOT adjusted properly. And the tongue is not shoved into the horses throat. It rests under the bit. You may do anatomy for a living, but I train horses for a living. Like stated before, any trainer worth a lick will tell you a mechanical hackamore is worthless. Show me the correct scientific study proving a mechanical hackamore a painless and a bit is. I have yet to see anything but YouTube videos still stating opinions and nothing more.
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~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #59 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 04:33 PM
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And how does the hackamore not rest on the nasal bone? If you would please enlighten me on that, if it is adjusted properly, it does rest on the nasal bone. Your argument is invalid..

~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #60 of 90 Old 01-24-2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Elizabethan87 View Post
...Show me a scientific study that's been conducted, where the bit is more sufficient and painless. I don't care whose hands it's in, where's the scientific proof?!
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"Hilary M. Clayton, BVMS, PhD, Dipl. ACVSMR, MRCVS, Mary Anne McPhail Dressage Chair in Equine Sports Medicine at Michigan State University, explained ... new biomechanical findings in equitation science can help riders make more informed decisions about equipment use and also dispel certain myths about bridles, bits, and reins.

According to Clayton, soft tissues such as the tongue, for example, are better suited to handling pressure than hard tissues like the nose bone and the palate (the roof of the horse's mouth). "The horse's tongue can be very sensitive but it can also withstand a lot of different kinds of pressure," she said during her plenary lecture at the 2011 International Society for Equitation Science Conference, held Oct. 26-29 in Hooge Mierde, The Netherlands.

"From my point of view, I would be a lot more concerned about pressure directly on the hard tissues (and) the bones, rather than the soft tissues which have a lot more ability to absorb the forces," she said."
The Horse | Researcher Evaluates Bit, Rein Interaction with Equine Mouth | TheHorse.com

... Energy is an admirable thing, but the energy of stupidity seldom avails much..." - On Seats and Saddles (1868), Francis Dwyer, Major of Hussars (light cavalry)
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