Need Bit Info - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 26 Old 08-15-2012, 02:59 AM
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http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/Pets...T900246_104859 That's just a simple kimberwick uxeter with a broken mouthpiece.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...3L._AA300_.jpg regular kimberwick with a low port

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/347..._Mouth_Bit.jpg
Kimberwick uxeter with a french link

Generally, remember that the smaller the mouthpiece, the more severe a bit is. A leverage bit(kimberwick, pelham) vs a snaffle is going to have a lot more power over the snaffle. The further away from the mouth the reins hook up, the more leverage you're going to have. Necessarily, leverage isn't a bad thing. Some horses just don't do great with it. IMO, I'd never use a tiny twisted mouthpiece, I just don't like them, think they're too rough. Other horses naturally do better in a snaffle.
If you're serious about equitation, I wouldn't work with a regular kimberwick. Reason being is, any english rider/jumper needs to feel the corners of the horses mouth. As someone stated above, it you have the feeling that chain that runs under the horse's mouth is going to be too much.
I don't like gag bits either. If your friend isn't a trainer or something HIGHLY experienced with horses, wouldn't suggest it.
Different mouthpieces are going to have different effects on your horse's mouth.
For example, a plain old broken mouthpiece is going to to have a v pull on your horses mouth. It's a good idea to use bits outside of the horses mouth and look at where the pressure is put, and what kind of shape the mouthpiece creates.
The french link mouthpiece is double jointed so it conforms more to the horse's mouth. It has a u-shaped pull on the horses mouth. Are you following?
http://vichorse.com/forum/index.php?...7032&private=0
That's a baucher snaffle. It doesn't have a curb chain like a pelham or plain kimberwick does. I'm sure you could get a slow twist on it if you desired. The baucher snaffle has a tiny bit of leverage to it so it may just work.
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post #12 of 26 Old 08-15-2012, 03:07 AM
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The problem with bitting up is, if you bit up when the horse gets stronger, and keep bitting up, you'll run out bits to use. I understand you want to be safe and don't want to lose control.

Does your horse respect the bit? Does he lean on it? Does he plain old ignore it? It would be helpful to know that too.

If your horse ignores the bit(like mine used to when I was teaching her to neck rein) don't let her ignore the bit. It's like when you're getting an old lesson horse to trot. You don't start with kicking the horse. Even though you know he's going to take a lot of leg, you give him a chance to respond to a light touch. Bits work the same way. Kicking is bad, so is yanking on the horse.
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post #13 of 26 Old 08-15-2012, 08:56 AM
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It seems you are looking for a quick fix using a bit... And ignoring those of us asking exactly what is wrong to try and figure out the training that is missing in place of a bit.
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post #14 of 26 Old 08-15-2012, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JustDressageIt View Post
It seems you are looking for a quick fix using a bit... And ignoring those of us asking exactly what is wrong to try and figure out the training that is missing in place of a bit.
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Im sorry, I didnt mean to ignore you. My aunt breaks horses young and old and is also my trainer, along with my grandmother who works for the ushja and they say he doesnt really need retraining, he's just strong in the field. Im not looking for a everyday bit or anything, just something for field work, which is very important because were big on foxhunting at our barn. Also, he doesnt really accept and lean on the bit, but he doesnt reject it either. Again, Im sorry.
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post #15 of 26 Old 08-15-2012, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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I don't want to keep bitting up, I just want to use something stronger for a few days.
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post #16 of 26 Old 08-16-2012, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSkipper View Post
Im sorry, I didnt mean to ignore you. My aunt breaks horses young and old and is also my trainer, along with my grandmother who works for the ushja and they say he doesnt really need retraining, he's just strong in the field. Im not looking for a everyday bit or anything, just something for field work, which is very important because were big on foxhunting at our barn. Also, he doesnt really accept and lean on the bit, but he doesnt reject it either. Again, Im sorry.
Yes, (I am just saying this as I have not seen your aunt or grandmother work for horses they could be great trainers or not) and a lot of people call themselves trainers but really they are not a horse trainer at all, although they may believe it themselves and lead other people to think so. By the sounds of it, he needs retraining in the field. If you need to move up a bit to control, you (as the rider) and your horse needs retraining so that the horse will reply to a milder bit. Now, if you were moving up to a harsher bit so you could, say, apply verryy little pressure on the reins for herding cattle or finetuning a sliding stop... that's a different thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkipper View Post
I don't want to keep bitting up, I just want to use something stronger for a few days.
Yep, and once you bit up for a couple days and go back to a milder bit, chances are he's just going to be stronger because he has been sensitized to the harsher bit.

Of course you can move up from a curb bit to a snaffle and vice versa with the same sensitivity/hardness in the horse, you just have to be a good enough rider to know how much pressure you are putting on the reins and not put the same amount on the reins as you ride in a snaffle when you ride in a curb.

“Good things come to those who wait… greater things come to those who get off their ass and do anything to make it happen.” - Unknown
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post #17 of 26 Old 08-16-2012, 02:59 AM
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You'd be surprised how many threads are around for people wanting bits just for the field...It's interesting for me to see the conflicting answers of people actually giving suggestions and people saying "Don't ever go out of the snaffle evereverever"

I'm confused by this whole "field" thing now.

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #18 of 26 Old 08-16-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post
You'd be surprised how many threads are around for people wanting bits just for the field...It's interesting for me to see the conflicting answers of people actually giving suggestions and people saying "Don't ever go out of the snaffle evereverever"

I'm confused by this whole "field" thing now.
I think she means going out and riding out in the open, in a meadow, field. Since the majority of horses nowadays are ridden in arenas, often times when they go out into the open space they think "OH! SO BIG! RUN!" and with the people that don't know how to show them that its ok to be calm in a big, open, wide space think they need a stronger bit because the horse is trying to run away from them. Or at least not listening. The horse really just needs to learn to be comfortable and that a big ole field does not mean gallop your heart out with a rider clinging on (or running after you yelling, theres that classic cartoon of the little kid running after their pony with a whip). Of course not the case in all horses, but quite a few!

“Good things come to those who wait… greater things come to those who get off their ass and do anything to make it happen.” - Unknown
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post #19 of 26 Old 08-16-2012, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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well the bit is because he will take off full gallop, and I cannot stop him until he tires down.
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post #20 of 26 Old 08-16-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Out View Post
The problem with bitting up is, if you bit up when the horse gets stronger, and keep bitting up, you'll run out bits to use.
Maybe it's just my neck of the woods but I have never seen that happen. It seems to be a fear everyone has, but I play around with different bits all the time (mostly curbs) and never had a problem going back down to a softer bit. I don't know of anyone who has worked up to stronger and stronger bits.

I would rather ride softly with a curb than have to pull on a horse in a snaffle. Don't you think if you have to pull on the snaffle to stop the horse, you might be un-training the horse worse than if you use a stronger bit and the horse actually respects it?

I know in an ideal world the horse would not be running off in a snaffle either, but if that's the circumstance you find yourself in, I would rather use a bit that the horse responds to.

If you stay in a snaffle and have little control but feel like you MUST stay there because other bits are harsh well, at that point you are kind of in denial. Like cramming yourself into clothes that are two sizes too small. You are already at the point of the horse's mouth being dulled to the bit. And it's the snaffle that caused that, not the curb. A curb should sensitize, not desensitize.

But hey, I ride western. I know everyone who rides English won't agree with my warped logic.
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