Restoring/maintaining a WWII saddle - Page 3
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Horse Tack > Horse Tack and Equipment

Restoring/maintaining a WWII saddle

This is a discussion on Restoring/maintaining a WWII saddle within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Stirrup marked us ns 1941 d&s
  • WWII saddle 11 inch

Like Tree16Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    06-12-2012, 08:52 AM
  #21
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by stablesgt    
Your saddle is a M1936 Philips used strictly by U.S. Cavalry and field artillery officers. Your saddle appears to have all the proper accessories for service in the field: pommel pockets, saddle bags and the cantle shelf.

Philips saddle seats can be found. HOWEVER, it is extremely rare to find a fully equipped Philips. The cantle shelf alone is a $300-$400 collector item. Your complete ensemble is a museum piece. Please do not think of it as a saddle - I urge you to never put it on a horse or attempt to sit on it. No matter how sound it may look, attempting to sit on it will very likely explode the seams of the seat which will basically destroy this historical item.

Think of this ensemble as a piece of antique militaria. Please avoid any synthetic leather treatments. Belvoir glycerine saddle soap is all that is needed and should be applied with just enough water to make the soap bar barely greasy and then gently, not vigorously, rubbed in.

I recommend you not try to unscrew the cantle shelf. It is sheet steel covered in leather. It is flexed to line up the screw flanges with the screw holes. If you take it off, you may not be able to get the shelf to line back up with the holes. Secondly, you may lose one of the screws. They are of a special design and irreplaceable.

The pommel pocks swivel off - no risk in removing them for treatment if you must. Look in the pommel pockets to see if there are two metal bolt heads. They are meant to be screwed into the sockets on the pommel when pockets not in use. If you find the bolt heads, leave them in one of the pockets. They are usually missing from the Philips saddles that are still around. The stirrup irons should be marked "U.S." and dated on the bottom. If the saddle is 100% complete, the stirrup leather buckles should not look like modern ones. They should be slightly offset.
Wow I'm so excited at your detailed response! I would never dream of riding in it, though I must admit I did sit on it... I'm lucky I didn't bust anything! I'll have my mom check out the stirrups and stirrup leathers to see if they are original since I'm not home, but it was her grandfather so I'm sure she'll love reading this! Thank you so much!
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    06-12-2012, 07:51 PM
  #22
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by stablesgt    


The pommel pocks swivel off - no risk in removing them for treatment if you must. Look in the pommel pockets to see if there are two metal bolt heads. They are meant to be screwed into the sockets on the pommel when pockets not in use. If you find the bolt heads, leave them in one of the pockets. They are usually missing from the Philips saddles that are still around. The stirrup irons should be marked "U.S." and dated on the bottom. If the saddle is 100% complete, the stirrup leather buckles should not look like modern ones. They should be slightly offset.
You were spot on for the stirrup irons! US and a date that looks like 1941? What does the date mean? There are also some sort of initials "J.O.M.D" and "NS", is there any significance to them?



My mom tried to get pictures of the leather buckles but they are wedged up pretty high and this is the best she could do: (I can't really tell if they are off-set or not)



I'm curious, how do you have so much knowledge of these saddles?
     
    06-12-2012, 10:45 PM
  #23
Foal
JQMD = Jeffersonville Quartermaster Depot. The irons were made in 1941 at the depot outside Jeffersonville, Indiana. I believe the NS means "nickel steel". It might also be a depot inspector's initials but I do not think so.

I see that there is at least one long belt remaining draped over the cantle shelf. If the second one also remains, that would be nice. Cannot tell anything from the photo of the stirrup buckle. It can be pulled down just like any other stirrup leather on an english saddle.

I forgot to mention that there should be three approx 18 inch long narrow belts wrapped around each pommel pocket, retention slots for the belts can be seen on the back of the pockets. Are those belts stuffed inside the pockets? Are the pommel socket bolt heads in one of the pockets?

The pommel pockets can be easily removed. They were meant to be taken off and put back on. They are connected to the saddle by a sturdy T shaped lug nut that is riveted onto the top back corner of each of the pockets. Simply swing the bottom of each pocket forward and upward 90 degrees and the pocket can then be pulled straight off the pommel. By rotating the pocket forward, the T arms of the lug on back of pocket will have been lined up with open slots in the socket on the saddle.

Now the pommel flaps can be lifted and you will be able to see the maker plate found in the same area as on any other english saddle. The stirrup buckle can then be probably moved easier for inspection.

I would recommend some old used cotton towels (NO wadded newspapers, small blocks of wood or anything plastic/synthetic!) be GENTLY stuffed into the saddle bags to help them maintain their expanded shape. Otherwise, they will collapse over time becoming pancake flat. That will make a hard crease in the leather of the bellows portion of bags. Aged creased leather cracks and separates. Do not overstuff; cut old towels to furnish just enough volume to expand the bags somewhat. This will also aid in the occasional application of glycerine soap.

Forgot to mention, the pommel pockets and saddle bags will have info stamped on them like that on the bottom of the irons.
     
    06-13-2012, 12:12 AM
  #24
Foal
Man I wish I was home so I could look at it in more detail! I will send all this to my mom and see if she can find anything. I'd love to find those bolts you were talking about. I remember I tried to open one of the pockets before but the leather was so stiff I was scared to keep trying. I do believe these are the straps you are talking about on the cantle shelf though:

     
    06-14-2012, 11:54 PM
  #25
Foal
More pictures my mom sent:
I don't think she found bolts





Someone put this cardboard in the smaller pockets to keep them formed I guess





     
    06-15-2012, 12:24 AM
  #26
Yearling
Wow,what a treasure you have there! Just think of the stories it could tell,if it could talk..
     
    06-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #27
Foal
GET RID OF THAT CARDBOARD! Cardboard, like newspapers, is made out of woodpulp which decays and emits a sulfur type gas. That is why old newspapers turn brown and stain anything laying on them.

The green liners are appropriate. Do not try to clean them as they may have dry rot and will fall apart.

Need a sideways view of the stirrup buckle to see if it is original.
     
    06-15-2012, 06:08 PM
  #28
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobbyhorse    
Nice saddle! I have a WWI (1913) McClellan tree and original girth, but only use my 1904 McClellan, rigged up for trail riding. 11 inch seat vs 12 inch, you see. LOL 11 inch would be about a 13-14" modern western seat. Just some facts for ya.....enjoy that saddle! (why NOT use it? How cool would that be!)
Join the club. Some of our McClellans are probably 1860 vintage, underneath, some are 1904's.
BTW, the US Cavalry disbanded in 1942, when they realized that mounted units couldn't be effective against all of the other war armaments. Still, there were mules used in Viet Nam. ALL mounted units today are reenactors, even IF they drill on the parade grounds of US forts, like at Fort Riley, KS.
George Patton came from a line of US Cavalry officers. Between the WW's, the Cavalry spent their time drilling and horse showing, hence the English-type all-purpose saddle that you now own. =D
My most comfortable McClellan is an 11 1/2", 1904. The triangular metal size plates are becoming rare.
     
    06-15-2012, 06:25 PM
  #29
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by stablesgt    
GET RID OF THAT CARDBOARD! Cardboard, like newspapers, is made out of woodpulp which decays and emits a sulfur type gas. That is why old newspapers turn brown and stain anything laying on them.

The green liners are appropriate. Do not try to clean them as they may have dry rot and will fall apart.

Need a sideways view of the stirrup buckle to see if it is original.
I will tell my mom ASAP! I'm not sure what kind of a picture you need... like from the side of the leather?
     
    06-16-2012, 10:24 PM
  #30
Foal
Last photo was face on - need sideways, edge, profile of buckle.
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help restoring an aussie saddle KatieQ Horse Tack and Equipment 0 04-10-2011 10:16 PM
1918 Cavalry Saddle -- Restoring? *Pics* Brighteyes Horse Tack and Equipment 20 02-13-2011 11:19 PM
about a WWII veteran. RegalCharm General Off Topic Discussion 8 10-16-2009 02:03 AM
Equestrain trail closed in western Mo. state park to allow search for WWII ordnance singlecowgirl Trail Riding 1 10-12-2009 08:53 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0