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Running Martingales VS Standing Martingales

30K views 93 replies 26 participants last post by  Hoofprints in the Sand 
#1 ·
My Horse really needs a martingale according to my riding instructer but she won't tell me WHICH one!??!?! Crazy, i know. -BUT she did say it was either a running martingale or a standing martingale. Apparently she wants me to figure out which one i need. My Horse throws his head alot and resists the bit, he puts his head down, trying to pull the reins out of my hands. I Checked his bridle and bit and the saddle but nothing is pinching him or putting pressure on him!? i also checked his hooves and there wasn't anything there. He has no sores on his face or his withers/back so im thinking its just cause he's a fat lazy boy :) I read that running martingales are for head throwing and stuff like that but im not sure which one to get. they both have variable things my horse does.... any advice??? Thanks :)
 
#2 ·
Get a trainer. You need to address the issue that your horse has with you. You probably aren't giving him the release he needs. Find an instructor that will teach you to RIDE and not just sit on your horses back and torment him. Your horse isn't getting a good signal from you and you need to clear that up or it will just get worse. If you go to a martingale (either one) then another problem will pop up and your instructor will want you to change bits or use a caveson or some other stop gap measure. If you want to be on the track to become a horseman now is the time to start.
 
#3 ·
Uhh, excuse me but I KNOW how to ride thank you very much. My Horse was abused and he is very skiddish some times and we are working out all his kinks. I Did NOT ask for you critique i asked WHICH martingale works for this. I can w/t/c/g and jump up to 3.5 feet with out using my hands. So dont you DARE say i can't ride. You've NEVER seen me ride, My horse loves me very much he isnt being TORMENTED, Got it?
 
#9 ·
Ah - yes you did. Since you are apparently paying someone to supposedly teach you - yet they are not doing a complete job - you felt the need to ask your question to complete strangers who are unaware of the whole situation.

I agree that gadgets can be shortcuts. If I put a brace on your back to ensure you sat correctly in your saddle - is that teaching - or torment? Of course you can say - Gee this hurts. Your horse cannot.

As one of the other posters said - you probably need a new instructor.
 
#4 ·
I agree, you should find an answer to the symptoms your horse is showing. I have used running martingales (standing are illegal in eventing), BUT I rarely need them. Resistance should be addressed with flat work and more careful jumping, IMO.

Hopefully, your trainer has the ability to teach you through this problem.

If you MUST have a martingale, make sure it is adjusted properly and not so tight it effectively becomes a tie-down. I prefer running as they don't encourage a horse to lean into them (aggravating the original problem).
 
#5 ·
Thank you!!!
My Horse responds well to martingales, I've been trying some out. I just needed to know someone elses ADVICE not critical opinions :) I Tried loosening the bit too and that seemed to help but it also kept me from being able to control his head.... so im working with him to try and solve this problem. :)
 
#6 ·
Both types of martingales aim to address resistance by keeping the horse's head and neck in a position where the bit and your aids are more effective.

The standing martingale really just keeps the horse from raising his head above certain height to avoid the bit. However, smart and lazy horses learn to lean or balance themselves on the martingale. I use them rarely and for a short term, rather than long term fix.

Running martingales are more versatile. When adjusted correctly, they put downward pressure on the bars of the horses's mouth when he raises his head above a certain level and release that pressure when the horse drops his head. So used in moderation they can be an effective tool.

One big caveat - I almost *never* see them adjusted correctly. Too loose, they're ineffectual, and too tight, they put constant pressure on the bars of the horses mouth, which is contrary to good training and really abusive. If you use one, make sure someone who knows what they're doing adjusts it, and evaluate the adjustment each time you ride with it.
 
#7 ·
You need a new instructor. I am not anti martingale but I have a hard time with an instructor that says 'you need a new piece of equipment but you pick which one'. Is that not what you play your instructor/trainer to help you with?

I will not guess if your horse has a medical reason or simply a bad learned behavior but I would think a good instructor/trainer would be able to figure this out with you and not send you on a wild goose chase asking people on the internet what type of martingale to buy.
 
#8 ·
If you like showjumping then use a running martingale -

To muddy the issue a bit - a Market Harborough ( or German martingale ) is a really usefull training aid - when fitted and used properly. - I know many people dislike them but I find them to be one of the best, when fitted properly they enable a horse to learn as they only work when the horse is being evasive.
 
#10 ·
I would definately go with a running martingale. I personally hate standing martingales and they're actually illegal in eventing. Theyre too restricting and i've seen horses flip over because of them. Running martingales are much more forgiving and can be as lose or tight as you want them depending on your rein length.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Running martingales are much more forgiving and can be as lose or tight as you want them depending on your rein length.
Um, standing martingales are adjustable also.

(Not saying the OP needs one, just stating a fact.)


As for the above comment, I dont think you asked for a critique at all. Isn't that the point of horseforum? To seek advice from fellow riders and horse people? I wouldn't go as far as to say we are total strangers in the aspect that someone out there may have encountered a similar problem. Yeah, the training section and the critique section are the most popular in the way or responses, sometimes I feel it hard to get an answer out of a straight question. But thats why we are here, to learn and read. And I hope that you, JumpinigIsMyLife, got something out of your post.
But the question asked can not really be answered with out LOTS more knowledge of the OP.

It is like someone posting what brand of saddle should they get when they test rode in two. No one here saw them ride in them so no one here and tell them which they rode best in, etc.



Sillybunny I think if the trainer wanted the OP to learn something then the trainer should have asked the OP some questions and had a conversation with them about picking the right martingale and why one might be better fit for what they need to do. Not send the OP off on a wild goose chase.
 
#11 ·
I think her instructor wanted her to do a little research. Nothing wrong with that. I would have her help you pick on out. Tell her what you learned and that you are a little confused. Yes you pay the instructor to help you, but letting the instructor do everything for the rider can also be harmful. I'd rather have someone help me get there, not tell me every single step I need to take along the way.
 
#14 ·
Heartmy,

If your friends running martingale causes her horse to "break behind the poll" it is adjusted VERY incorrectly. The rings should almost touch the glottis area of the throat when the horses head is in the normal position. It should only engage when the horses head is way up. It is not meant to "hold" a horse in the normal position.
 
#15 ·
Thanks Allison, it seemed short to me in comparison to where my standing leaves my horse. But I figured she had it like that for a reason. Now, could him breaking behind the poll be him behind the bit? Or evading the bit, whatever, and not the martingale?
 
#17 ·
Gadgets gadgets gadgets. They're so popular now. I find it a bit sad that alot of coaches are now running off to find the nearest gadget to strap a head down and make a kid think their horse is 'on the bit'.
Sorry but I am 100% with kevinshorses on this. No you did not specifically ask for a 'critique' but this is in now way shape or form a critique as we have not seen you on the horse.
Generally, if I horse is throwing it's head up and down and hauling on the reins, unless he is sore, there's going to be an issue with the rider. Horses continuously throw new obstacles at their riders to try and escape pressure here there and everywhere, but you need to be a skilled enough rider to work a horse through these issues, without relying permanently on a 'gadget' to get you there. Sure everyone has to learn, but I don't think using gadgets for every issue is going to teach anyone much at all, what happened to putting in hard work and learning how to drive the hind end up to meet the hands to create a beautifull, soft relaxed horse? If your trainer is so set on you getting a martingale to fix the problem, I'd quit turning a blind eye and find someone who actually knows how to correct an issue such as this one, without having to use straps to hold the horses head down.
You can pull a horses head down, and that issue may be resolved, but the next one will surface quickly. If you rely on gadgets for every problem that arises, you may as well put your horse in a straight jacket, strap wheels to his hooves and get someone to tow him along while you enjoy riding a horse with a 'nice headset'.
Your comment that you love how a martingale gives your friend's horse a nice headset just proves that you are not aware of the concept of riding 'back to front', you are under the impression that a pretty, tucked in head is 'on the bit' or 'collected'. So SO not the case.

You don't need to take anyone's advice here. And I know you're probably going to go off like you did with Kevinshorses, but i think what needs to happen is that people on this forum need to stop thinking that they know everything there is to know and that if their horse isn't working exactly how they want it to, then OBVIOUSLY the horse is just being naughty. Get someone more experienced to ride your horse for a while and see what happens? If they know how to ride to a reasonable level of dressage/flatwork, they'll be able to combat the head movement by driving the hind legs under the horse, and you won't see the reefing occur again with that rider. We have to stop blaming the horse, take a step back and see that maybe our own riding is where the problem lies? So before you come back at me with teeth and claws out, just have a think... is your riding so perfect in every way that you couldn't possibly be inducing this behaviour?
 
#18 ·
Sorry forgot to mention, YES i do also use gadgets on certain horses. I like to lunge in side reins, I've had good results from doing so as long as the horse isn't the type to duck behind the bit and is working confidently forward into a contact under saddle. I have also used draw reins on a couple of horses, only once or twice then never had to use them again. But again, for a VERY short period of time and on horses that do not have the tendancy to drop back off the bit
 
#19 ·
By using a martingale you are avoiding the problem. You are just muting what is going on by tying the horses head to it's chest. So my advice is to find a new qualified trainer who can teach you how to properly fix a problem.
 
#20 ·
By using a martingale you are avoiding the problem. You are just muting what is going on by tying the horses head to it's chest.
What type of martingale have you been looking at? I've seen what you mentioned happen with draw reins, but martingales are loose until the horses head goes WAY up, then it comes into effect.

Unless a moron put it on and adjusted it, that is.

I also believe the trainer just wanted the OP to learn. Have her do some research as to what the different types of matingales do instead of being told what to buy, buying it and using it right away without knowing the reasoning behind it.
 
#22 ·
So let's say a horse defys the bit and tanks to a stop. What do you do (if you are sure the horse isn't in pain)?
 
#23 ·
Figure out why the horse isn't following your feel and how you can get back with him. He's not defying the bit just to do it he is confused and doesn't know what you want or he isn't prepared to do it when you ask him.
 
#25 ·
I can w/t/c/g and jump up to 3.5 feet with out using my hands. So dont you DARE say i can't ride. You've NEVER seen me ride, My horse loves me very much he isnt being TORMENTED, Got it?
So? I've seen many riders jump fences without understanding how to ride correctly. And? What does that proove? Just because someone can jump 3.5 feet, means diddly squat to me.

Lets see how effective you are between the fences, for that's far more important that going over the fence. Lets see what you can do Dressage wise, maybe that'll be more impressive.

And how do you know your horse loves you very much? Do you speak nicker?

Ah - yes you did. Since you are apparently paying someone to supposedly teach you - yet they are not doing a complete job - you felt the need to ask your question to complete strangers who are unaware of the whole situation.

I agree that gadgets can be shortcuts. If I put a brace on your back to ensure you sat correctly in your saddle - is that teaching - or torment? Of course you can say - Gee this hurts. Your horse cannot.

As one of the other posters said - you probably need a new instructor.
Great post MLS

~~~

Let me just start out by saying, I am now always against gadgets, but I am definately against people who want to use gadgets without understanding HOW most importantly, and WHY. I also cannot stand a rider who wants to turn to one, to use as a "training tool" when in reality - all a gadget is, is a mute to the real issue which is "RIDE CORRECTLY"

Gadgets are MAN MADE for MAN - Why? To make "man's" job, easier. They mute issues, and hide underlying problems - and all the while, the rider is either under the belief that the "gadget" has fixed the issue, or knows but wants the quick fix - he gadget is causing more issues in the long run.

horses learn to lean or balance themselves on the martingale.
Yes, I completely agree. I have also seen horses develop incorrect muscles by using the Standing for long periods of time. Most riders do not know to ride efficiantly to get the horse to engage their back ends, raise their backs and get them off of their forehands - so as a result, incorrect muscles are developed and, the moment the rider attempts to go without the gadget, POOF the horse resorts back to how it was before the gadget was thrown on in the first place.
Theyre too restricting and i've seen horses flip over because of them.
Yes, I completely agree. I dispise Standing Martingales and think they are garbage. MANY of those who use them, use them without even knowing why or how - but they see others using them and then so must they.

Because of this, I've seen accidents occur because the gadget was put on incorrectly, or used incorrectly.

And, horses should not have them on when jumping 3'0" or bigger.
I LOVE the head set it puts him in, but I feel that it "puts" him there, not because I asked for it. And sometimes he'll break at the 3rd and not at the poll.
Then the gadget is being used incorrectly, and uneducatedly.

Heartmy,

If your friends running martingale causes her horse to "break behind the poll" it is adjusted VERY incorrectly. The rings should almost touch the glottis area of the throat when the horses head is in the normal position. It should only engage when the horses head is way up. It is not meant to "hold" a horse in the normal position.
Exactly.

Gadgets gadgets gadgets. They're so popular now. I find it a bit sad that alot of coaches are now running off to find the nearest gadget to strap a head down and make a kid think their horse is 'on the bit'.
Sorry but I am 100% with kevinshorses on this. No you did not specifically ask for a 'critique' but this is in now way shape or form a critique as we have not seen you on the horse.
Generally, if I horse is throwing it's head up and down and hauling on the reins, unless he is sore, there's going to be an issue with the rider. Horses continuously throw new obstacles at their riders to try and escape pressure here there and everywhere, but you need to be a skilled enough rider to work a horse through these issues, without relying permanently on a 'gadget' to get you there. Sure everyone has to learn, but I don't think using gadgets for every issue is going to teach anyone much at all, what happened to putting in hard work and learning how to drive the hind end up to meet the hands to create a beautifull, soft relaxed horse? If your trainer is so set on you getting a martingale to fix the problem, I'd quit turning a blind eye and find someone who actually knows how to correct an issue such as this one, without having to use straps to hold the horses head down.
You can pull a horses head down, and that issue may be resolved, but the next one will surface quickly. If you rely on gadgets for every problem that arises, you may as well put your horse in a straight jacket, strap wheels to his hooves and get someone to tow him along while you enjoy riding a horse with a 'nice headset'.
Your comment that you love how a martingale gives your friend's horse a nice headset just proves that you are not aware of the concept of riding 'back to front', you are under the impression that a pretty, tucked in head is 'on the bit' or 'collected'. So SO not the case.

You don't need to take anyone's advice here. And I know you're probably going to go off like you did with Kevinshorses, but i think what needs to happen is that people on this forum need to stop thinking that they know everything there is to know and that if their horse isn't working exactly how they want it to, then OBVIOUSLY the horse is just being naughty. Get someone more experienced to ride your horse for a while and see what happens? If they know how to ride to a reasonable level of dressage/flatwork, they'll be able to combat the head movement by driving the hind legs under the horse, and you won't see the reefing occur again with that rider. We have to stop blaming the horse, take a step back and see that maybe our own riding is where the problem lies? So before you come back at me with teeth and claws out, just have a think... is your riding so perfect in every way that you couldn't possibly be inducing this behaviour?
*STANDS UP AND APPLAUDS*

WOOOT!! Great post, well said! BRAVO!
 
#26 ·
* Flame suit officially on, so take your shots :)*

I use a running martingale occasionally with my mare. She isn't "bad", she isn't "hot", she just needs a reminder sometimes not to throw her head up in the air. I will take it out maybe once every three or four months (or on an as-needed basis, but just as a rule that's about how much it's used). She is an extremely hard ride, no matter what anyone says. She is naturally a higher- carrying horse and when she jumps, she gets very enthusiastic. As a precaution to her health and mine, I will put the RM on for cross country and stadium competition and sometimes when we are doing higher jumps in a lesson.

So, OP, if you use one, I would use a running. I think it gives a bit more freedom because it's not directly attached to their head.
 
#27 ·
Anybody want to guess the last time the OP posted in this thread?

I am sure this thread will continue on for pages as experienced horsepeople debate training philosophies, etc., and that will be an interesting read, but I think we alienated the OP a few pages back.

If your intent in posting in this thread was to educate, inform or help, consider whether or not your tone or style of posting was likely to achieve that goal. Would you listen to an expert on a subject you were a novice in if they phrased their advice in this way?
 
#39 ·
Anybody want to guess the last time the OP posted in this thread?

I am sure this thread will continue on for pages as experienced horsepeople debate training philosophies, etc., and that will be an interesting read, but I think we alienated the OP a few pages back.

If your intent in posting in this thread was to educate, inform or help, consider whether or not your tone or style of posting was likely to achieve that goal. Would you listen to an expert on a subject you were a novice in if they phrased their advice in this way?
I try to stay objective, but I am learning that it is accpetable to "standing ovation" other people's post... So, THANK YOU! You certainly said what I was trying to say in my first response. I gave the OP my thoughts, and I hope they were of help. But everything got slowly picked apart. I try to take people's tone and turn it into a question to better my own understanding. That doesn't make me an "uneducated" rider. I just want to expand my personal knowledge, but when it comes down to it, everyone does things differently. I learn that everytime I have to (unfortunately) switch trainers. Its just a bummer to have to re-learn the little quirks.
 
#28 ·
I do think that certain gadgets have their place.... but not as permanent solutions. As I've said many a time, I will use draw reins once or twice on specific horses, then never use them again. I find if used correctly, they can help to give a confused horse the confidence to understand what you're asking. Again, as long as they are used only a handfull of times by someone who knows how and why to use them, and followed up by correct riding.
It's the people who have absolutely no idea of how to develop a horse in a correct fashion that use gadgets as shortcuts to 'hide' their own inability to train who bother me. If I didn't understand the concept of riding a horses hind legs to meet the bridle, that the ultimate goal is a soft, swinging back and a hrose that accepts and reaches for the contact. As well as knowing how to achieve this, and having done so with numerous different horses, I would definately not be even contemplating using a gadget to help me.
My view on it is that if you KNOW how to train correctly and KNOW and UNDERSTAND the ultimate goal, then a gadget can benifit you to assisting the horse to understand it's job more clearly. Using a gadget when you are not even sure how to get a steady head carriage under your own steam is most definately OUT in my books.
 
#30 ·
I agree maura,

I probably should have avoided posting at all. But you are right. The way some of the posts were phrased probably sounded more like an attack than a helpful suggestion.
 
#32 ·
So, what do you guys think of all the horses running around the CCI***/**** courses with running martingales?

According to you guys, those riders are not riding correctly and just masking problems their horses have. And they should quit riding because they're a disgrace to the sport (kidding here:lol:). But really, I'm pretty sure those riders KNOW what they're doing.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I'm not sure you understood some of the posts. I use running martingales on some horses, especially on XC, but are precautionary equipment. They are adjusted correctly and are not engaged unless the horse's head is way out of the correct position.

This mare always wore one on XC.



This stallion wore a sliding running martingale (standard ones make sharp turns difficult). This is my absolute favorite running martingale, but almost impossible to find. BTW, excuse my horrible XC equitation. This was only training level and my stirrups were longer than I usually ride in.



As you can see, this will not be easy to engage. It is adjusted so that only extreme positioning will engage the martingale (as seen by the slack in the slide at the breastplate.


This little 15.1 package of pure athlete always wore one. He could be a real **** on XC, if allowed. My leg is hanging low on the offside due to my riding with a fractured leg. Not the most fun I had on an XC course.



What I DID say, is I never use it to position a horse's head!!
 
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