Running Martingales VS Standing Martingales - Page 3

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Running Martingales VS Standing Martingales

This is a discussion on Running Martingales VS Standing Martingales within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Escape the hand, martingales for horses

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    12-30-2009, 04:14 PM
Green Broke
I only belive that a gadget should be used as a procaution, not to fix a problem as the OP is doing
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    12-30-2009, 07:13 PM
Green Broke
So let's say a horse defys the bit and tanks to a stop. What do you do (if you are sure the horse isn't in pain)?
    12-30-2009, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Sunny06    
So let's say a horse defys the bit and tanks to a stop. What do you do (if you are sure the horse isn't in pain)?
Figure out why the horse isn't following your feel and how you can get back with him. He's not defying the bit just to do it he is confused and doesn't know what you want or he isn't prepared to do it when you ask him.
    12-30-2009, 07:48 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
Figure out why the horse isn't following your feel and how you can get back with him. He's not defying the bit just to do it he is confused and doesn't know what you want or he isn't prepared to do it when you ask him.
Well said thank you.
    12-30-2009, 08:30 PM
I can w/t/c/g and jump up to 3.5 feet with out using my hands. So don't you DARE say I can't ride. You've NEVER seen me ride, My horse loves me very much he isnt being TORMENTED, Got it?
So? I've seen many riders jump fences without understanding how to ride correctly. And? What does that proove? Just because someone can jump 3.5 feet, means diddly squat to me.

Lets see how effective you are between the fences, for that's far more important that going over the fence. Lets see what you can do Dressage wise, maybe that'll be more impressive.

And how do you know your horse loves you very much? Do you speak nicker?

Ah - yes you did. Since you are apparently paying someone to supposedly teach you - yet they are not doing a complete job - you felt the need to ask your question to complete strangers who are unaware of the whole situation.

I agree that gadgets can be shortcuts. If I put a brace on your back to ensure you sat correctly in your saddle - is that teaching - or torment? Of course you can say - Gee this hurts. Your horse cannot.

As one of the other posters said - you probably need a new instructor.
Great post MLS


Let me just start out by saying, I am now always against gadgets, but I am definitely against people who want to use gadgets without understanding HOW most importantly, and WHY. I also cannot stand a rider who wants to turn to one, to use as a "training tool" when in reality - all a gadget is, is a mute to the real issue which is "RIDE CORRECTLY"

Gadgets are MAN MADE for MAN - Why? To make "man's" job, easier. They mute issues, and hide underlying problems - and all the while, the rider is either under the belief that the "gadget" has fixed the issue, or knows but wants the quick fix - he gadget is causing more issues in the long run.

horses learn to lean or balance themselves on the martingale.
Yes, I completely agree. I have also seen horses develop incorrect muscles by using the Standing for long periods of time. Most riders do not know to ride efficiantly to get the horse to engage their back ends, raise their backs and get them off of their forehands - so as a result, incorrect muscles are developed and, the moment the rider attempts to go without the gadget, POOF the horse resorts back to how it was before the gadget was thrown on in the first place.

Theyre too restricting and i've seen horses flip over because of them.
Yes, I completely agree. I dispise Standing Martingales and think they are garbage. MANY of those who use them, use them without even knowing why or how - but they see others using them and then so must they.

Because of this, I've seen accidents occur because the gadget was put on incorrectly, or used incorrectly.

And, horses should not have them on when jumping 3'0" or bigger.

I LOVE the head set it puts him in, but I feel that it "puts" him there, not because I asked for it. And sometimes he'll break at the 3rd and not at the poll.
Then the gadget is being used incorrectly, and uneducatedly.


If your friends running martingale causes her horse to "break behind the poll" it is adjusted VERY incorrectly. The rings should almost touch the glottis area of the throat when the horses head is in the normal position. It should only engage when the horses head is way up. It is not meant to "hold" a horse in the normal position.

Gadgets gadgets gadgets. They're so popular now. I find it a bit sad that alot of coaches are now running off to find the nearest gadget to strap a head down and make a kid think their horse is 'on the bit'.
Sorry but I am 100% with kevinshorses on this. No you did not specifically ask for a 'critique' but this is in now way shape or form a critique as we have not seen you on the horse.
Generally, if I horse is throwing it's head up and down and hauling on the reins, unless he is sore, there's going to be an issue with the rider. Horses continuously throw new obstacles at their riders to try and escape pressure here there and everywhere, but you need to be a skilled enough rider to work a horse through these issues, without relying permanently on a 'gadget' to get you there. Sure everyone has to learn, but I don't think using gadgets for every issue is going to teach anyone much at all, what happened to putting in hard work and learning how to drive the hind end up to meet the hands to create a beautifull, soft relaxed horse? If your trainer is so set on you getting a martingale to fix the problem, I'd quit turning a blind eye and find someone who actually knows how to correct an issue such as this one, without having to use straps to hold the horses head down.
You can pull a horses head down, and that issue may be resolved, but the next one will surface quickly. If you rely on gadgets for every problem that arises, you may as well put your horse in a straight jacket, strap wheels to his hooves and get someone to tow him along while you enjoy riding a horse with a 'nice headset'.
Your comment that you love how a martingale gives your friend's horse a nice headset just proves that you are not aware of the concept of riding 'back to front', you are under the impression that a pretty, tucked in head is 'on the bit' or 'collected'. So SO not the case.

You don't need to take anyone's advice here. And I know you're probably going to go off like you did with Kevinshorses, but I think what needs to happen is that people on this forum need to stop thinking that they know everything there is to know and that if their horse isn't working exactly how they want it to, then OBVIOUSLY the horse is just being naughty. Get someone more experienced to ride your horse for a while and see what happens? If they know how to ride to a reasonable level of dressage/flatwork, they'll be able to combat the head movement by driving the hind legs under the horse, and you won't see the reefing occur again with that rider. We have to stop blaming the horse, take a step back and see that maybe our own riding is where the problem lies? So before you come back at me with teeth and claws out, just have a think... is your riding so perfect in every way that you couldn't possibly be inducing this behaviour?

WOOOT!! Great post, well said! BRAVO!
    12-30-2009, 08:39 PM
Green Broke
* Flame suit officially on, so take your shots :)*

I use a running martingale occasionally with my mare. She isn't "bad", she isn't "hot", she just needs a reminder sometimes not to throw her head up in the air. I will take it out maybe once every three or four months (or on an as-needed basis, but just as a rule that's about how much it's used). She is an extremely hard ride, no matter what anyone says. She is naturally a higher- carrying horse and when she jumps, she gets very enthusiastic. As a precaution to her health and mine, I will put the RM on for cross country and stadium competition and sometimes when we are doing higher jumps in a lesson.

So, OP, if you use one, I would use a running. I think it gives a bit more freedom because it's not directly attached to their head.
    12-30-2009, 08:54 PM
Anybody want to guess the last time the OP posted in this thread?

I am sure this thread will continue on for pages as experienced horsepeople debate training philosophies, etc., and that will be an interesting read, but I think we alienated the OP a few pages back.

If your intent in posting in this thread was to educate, inform or help, consider whether or not your tone or style of posting was likely to achieve that goal. Would you listen to an expert on a subject you were a novice in if they phrased their advice in this way?
    12-30-2009, 08:58 PM
I do think that certain gadgets have their place.... but not as permanent solutions. As I've said many a time, I will use draw reins once or twice on specific horses, then never use them again. I find if used correctly, they can help to give a confused horse the confidence to understand what you're asking. Again, as long as they are used only a handfull of times by someone who knows how and why to use them, and followed up by correct riding.
It's the people who have absolutely no idea of how to develop a horse in a correct fashion that use gadgets as shortcuts to 'hide' their own inability to train who bother me. If I didn't understand the concept of riding a horses hind legs to meet the bridle, that the ultimate goal is a soft, swinging back and a hrose that accepts and reaches for the contact. As well as knowing how to achieve this, and having done so with numerous different horses, I would definitely not be even contemplating using a gadget to help me.
My view on it is that if you KNOW how to train correctly and KNOW and UNDERSTAND the ultimate goal, then a gadget can benifit you to assisting the horse to understand it's job more clearly. Using a gadget when you are not even sure how to get a steady head carriage under your own steam is most definitely OUT in my books.
    12-30-2009, 09:00 PM
Once again, great post Kayty.
    12-30-2009, 09:00 PM
Green Broke
I agree maura,

I probably should have avoided posting at all. But you are right. The way some of the posts were phrased probably sounded more like an attack than a helpful suggestion.

head, lazy, martingales, tack, throwing

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