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Saddle fit *WINTEC*

This is a discussion on Saddle fit *WINTEC* within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Wintec saddle sticks up at back
  • Wintec saddle shims

 
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    10-21-2011, 09:11 PM
  #11
Trained
Also the logo on the leather keeper is looking like Wintec to me. Besides I think the OP knows how to read, Wintec plasters their brand over the saddle.
     
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    10-21-2011, 09:16 PM
  #12
Yearling
I never said the OP lacked literacy skills, I just said that the saddle looked leather to me and therefore could not be a Wintec. I would hope that because the OP bought a Wintec that it is a Wintec saddle and they did not get scammed.
     
    10-21-2011, 09:41 PM
  #13
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicole25    
That is not a wintec.at least I think that this saddle looks like its leather.
My friend has the same saddle, It's a wintec close contact I believe...let me see if I can find it on their website...Wintec 500 Close Contact Saddle Caramel 15 Cair - Brumby Saddlery & Cactus City Boots
     
    10-22-2011, 12:27 AM
  #14
Weanling
It definitely says WINTEC on the leather keeper. Kind of a silly thing to argue about, especially since it really is not relevant to the original question.

I REALLY dislike the fit of this saddle.
First of all, from the rider's perspective: In the side view, it looks like the pommel is a good 4"+ lower than the cantle; this puts the lowest point of the saddle further forward, and will translate in your riding to throwing you forward. With a jump saddle (they usually have low cantles), your pommel should be level with the cantle to provide you with proper balance. This saddle is clearly made to fit that way (look how the back panels seem to lift up) - it is supposed to be tilted back onto the very back portion of those panels. The reason that this saddle tilts forward on your horse is that he(?) has severe muscle wastage on both sides of his withers. The saddle is falling into this void.

A "professional" saddle fitter would probably tell you to get a narrower tree, and to stuff the hell out of those front panels to prop it up, thus providing the rider with the proper balance. They would also tell you that those "shark fin withers" are just part of his conformation. In my opinion, THEY ARE WRONG. A narrow tree is going to pinch your horse behind his shoulder blades, thus restricting his freedom of movement. That's something he's not going to appreciate.

In my opinion, you need to work on building muscle through his back. Hill work and lots of long and low (while maintaining impulsion) will encourage him to engage these muscles. Let me be very clear: See-sawing, or otherwise forcing or holding the horse "into a frame" is going to encourage your horse to drop his back, and drag himself forward with his front end. On the other end of the spectrum, if your horse tends to evade the bit and put his nose up, this would have the same effect. If your horse tends to have more muscle in his shoulders than butt, this proves my theory that he currently does one of the above. Building this muscle takes time, patience, consistency, and ironically, also a good fitting saddle. You need a saddle that is going to allow him to fully use his back. I would suggest buying a wider tree, and shimming it to fit. He will need a lot of shimming at first, but as he builds muscle, you will be able to remove the shims.

I would highly recommend reading through the Balance Saddle website. These saddles aren't too hard to find used, and they're truly the best investment you could ever make. I have the dressage and jumping versions of their 'Matrix' saddle, that I use with a Parelli Theraflex pad. With this combination, I can make my saddle fit pretty much any one of the horses in my boarding barn. I love the fact that I will never have to saddle shop ever again! The shimming system of the Balance saddles is also great, but I prefer the Parelli pad mainly because I don't like to use sheepskin (which is the base of the Balance shimming system). Using a saddling system like this one will completely change the shape of your horses back. It will completely change how he moves, and how willing he is to perform under saddle. It will probably even change his attitude, and how he views you. A lot of people scoff at this alternative method, but it really does work. So, do your horse a favor, and check it out. :)
     
    10-22-2011, 02:22 AM
  #15
Foal
From the side on pic it looks like the cantle is higher than the pommel- they should be level. The front part of the saddle should be raised. It also looks quite close to the top of the wither which would be a concern. A riser pad which doesn't pinch the wither would be an option. As it sits now the saddle will tip the rider forward which is obviously not ideal.
     
    10-22-2011, 09:25 AM
  #16
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clementine    
It definitely says WINTEC on the leather keeper. Kind of a silly thing to argue about, especially since it really is not relevant to the original question.

I REALLY dislike the fit of this saddle.
First of all, from the rider's perspective: In the side view, it looks like the pommel is a good 4"+ lower than the cantle; this puts the lowest point of the saddle further forward, and will translate in your riding to throwing you forward. With a jump saddle (they usually have low cantles), your pommel should be level with the cantle to provide you with proper balance. This saddle is clearly made to fit that way (look how the back panels seem to lift up) - it is supposed to be tilted back onto the very back portion of those panels. The reason that this saddle tilts forward on your horse is that he(?) has severe muscle wastage on both sides of his withers. The saddle is falling into this void.

A "professional" saddle fitter would probably tell you to get a narrower tree, and to stuff the hell out of those front panels to prop it up, thus providing the rider with the proper balance. They would also tell you that those "shark fin withers" are just part of his conformation. In my opinion, THEY ARE WRONG. A narrow tree is going to pinch your horse behind his shoulder blades, thus restricting his freedom of movement. That's something he's not going to appreciate.

In my opinion, you need to work on building muscle through his back. Hill work and lots of long and low (while maintaining impulsion) will encourage him to engage these muscles. Let me be very clear: See-sawing, or otherwise forcing or holding the horse "into a frame" is going to encourage your horse to drop his back, and drag himself forward with his front end. On the other end of the spectrum, if your horse tends to evade the bit and put his nose up, this would have the same effect. If your horse tends to have more muscle in his shoulders than butt, this proves my theory that he currently does one of the above. Building this muscle takes time, patience, consistency, and ironically, also a good fitting saddle. You need a saddle that is going to allow him to fully use his back. I would suggest buying a wider tree, and shimming it to fit. He will need a lot of shimming at first, but as he builds muscle, you will be able to remove the shims.

I would highly recommend reading through the Balance Saddle website. These saddles aren't too hard to find used, and they're truly the best investment you could ever make. I have the dressage and jumping versions of their 'Matrix' saddle, that I use with a Parelli Theraflex pad. With this combination, I can make my saddle fit pretty much any one of the horses in my boarding barn. I love the fact that I will never have to saddle shop ever again! The shimming system of the Balance saddles is also great, but I prefer the Parelli pad mainly because I don't like to use sheepskin (which is the base of the Balance shimming system). Using a saddling system like this one will completely change the shape of your horses back. It will completely change how he moves, and how willing he is to perform under saddle. It will probably even change his attitude, and how he views you. A lot of people scoff at this alternative method, but it really does work. So, do your horse a favor, and check it out. :)
Thank you for the info (and being the first person to acctually give advice...). I do not have the money to buy a new saddle right now, but I will look into it. I will see about the gullet fit system, and see what she needs. I have been working on getting muscle on her by doing lots of hill work and such, and she definitely is gaining.
\
Thanks
     
    10-22-2011, 01:27 PM
  #17
Showing
About 10 years ago, if I recall correctly, Wintec started making english saddles in a leather look synthetic. It's still not quite the same color as a good english in the lighter tone.
     
    10-22-2011, 06:43 PM
  #18
Yearling
A brown Wintec! I'd heard rumors of such a thing but never hoped to see one (call me crazy but I hate black tack lol). The new Thorowgoods look even more like leather than this saddle does.
     
    10-23-2011, 07:07 AM
  #19
Weanling
That is definitely a wintec, the material edging running on the underneath of the pommel and down the panels is a dead giveaway.

Anyway, to the OP- The problem with the back panels sticking up is a common one. In fact, I almost exclusively rode in wintecs for years when I was learning to ride, and this problem happened to almost every horse that I rode in them. Happened to other people as well, and to every single one of my horses (drastically different builds). On one occasion I had a 'wintec' saddle fitter tell me that I should put in a narrower gullet so that the entire saddle would rock back more onto the back panels. This never really worked satisfactorily in my opinion, and I eventually sold that saddle because of the poor fir and ride (they are quite bouncy in my opinion) that it gave. I think that if the gullet fits correctly- hold up the flap and look at the angle of the tree vs the angle of the shoulder and they should be parallel, is to do what another poster suggested and build up around his withers. Another way to check the fit of any saddle with a gullet system is to place the actual gullet plate right onto the horse's back where it would sit in the saddle. It is quite obvious then if it fits or not- just beware to use the angle of the shoulder, not the hollows around the withers to gauge the fit, especially with a horse that has high, narrow withers.

Hope this helped a bit!
     
    10-23-2011, 07:13 AM
  #20
Weanling
Also, forgot to add that if I were to guess, without taking any of the actions above, I think you may need to go narrower. It looks like the pommel is quite close even with the horse's neck down. Also, if you have the CAIR panels, they tend to give a false reading if you only go by the "3 fingers" rule, as they really compress when you sit in them. This is why it is better to go by the angle of the tree.

To get my wintec to look like it had perfect clearance on my horses I needed an extra wide gullet plate. However, after getting my collegiate adjustable (which I absolutely love!) with wool panels it was apparent that my initial assesment that they were really only a wide gullet was correct.
     

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