Hi Thanks. Yup, saw both of those in the Google search. I like the Abetta at 20 pounds and would get it. The other is 35 pounds. They are both 8 inch gullet which is draft, but only 1 inch more than a full quarter horse at 7 inches.
Problem is, Hondo has a short back. If a standard length bar is kept back off his shoulders, the saddle is resting way way back on his loin. He is only 20 inches from a heartgirth measurment right at the back of his scapula to his 18th rib.
So yeah, there are draft saddles all over the place, but short is scarce.
I missed your post. I went to his website but saw no prices. Is that a case of "if you have to ask you can't afford it?"
Actually, I have been biting down into the bullet with the realization that I may have to go the custom route. I can't afford it bu I can't afford, or won't, jeopardize Hondo's back. And now that I've gone and learned a bit about the horse's back, if he's gonna carry me around he deserves the best fit possible.
Right now I'm going to go Google Haflinger saddles.
Arabian saddles are short. And Abetta makes one on a Ralide tree. The bars are only 20 1/8 inches long which would work with Hondo considering the flare, but the gullet is only 6 3/4 inches wide. That is a wide gullet but not draft back wide. Draft is minimum 8 inches and it wouldn't hurt for Hondo to have 9 inches.
Haggis Saddlery that makes Trooper saddles up in Canada has short bars and asked for wither tracings. I haven't heard back yet but I'm doubting he has that width gullet available although he does use a bronze gullet and someone said they "thought" they could be bent wider.
Hopefully he can, because I would like to have a Trooper. But if it doesn't completely break the bank, I'll get anything that does fit.
It appears Hondo is just a combination of sizes that are too unusual for anyone to tool up for.
If Ralide made a short draft tree I'd just stick it in my saddle. I'm on my third tree as it is. I'm getting good at it. He has a weird padding set up but he's comfortable but it's not good for the long run really.
Man, I thought Aires had a wide, flat back. He still isn't able to fill out a FQHB quite yet and he's an almost-8yo paint/Percheron cross.
The thing I'd worry about with a draft tree is bar angle. Yes, the gullet is 8" as opposed to a FQHB at 7", but the bar angle is vastly different. Heck, look at a SQHB as opposed to a FQHB. Only a half inch difference in the width of the gullet, but the difference is so drastic in the bar angle that you can usually tell the difference without even bothering to measure the gullet. In addition, one person's draft gullet is not anothers. I can't remember the company, but there's one company who claims their FQHB is 8" and another company who claims their draft tree is an 10" gullet.
Hey @DraftyAiresMum , we cross posted. And I just noticed we're neighbors.
Yup, I even saw a saddle advertised as draft that had a 7 inch gullet, plus 8, 9, and a bunch of 10's.
As mentioned in the above post about wanting a Trooper, the reason is that the angle can be modified without much difficulty. Either by shimming the contact with the framing or using a rasp or what ever.
But the front gullet has to be wide enough. The bars could be slid out some for widening but the gullet would need to be close.
Plus with the Trooper you can see what is going on with the fit. The trooper was developed in 1902 for the British cavalry and is still used today.
I have a Ralide pack saddle that is FQH that I can set on Hondo for fit and it's just too narrow.
WELCOME TO LIVECHAT
CHARLIE HUENI
3:29 pm
Welcome back! Do you have any questions?
HAROLD
How wide is extra wide on the Big Horn Light Weight Haflinger Saddle, Extra Wide
CHARLIE HUENI
The gullet is 7.5" wide which works very well for most mutton withered horses.
HAROLD
I don't think there is a saddle manufactured that will fit my horse. Draft back, needs a 9 inch gullet at least, but a short back. 14hh Morgan
CHARLIE HUENI
That's a tough one. Martin Saddlery can make their short barrel saddles with a 9" gullet.
HAROLD
Thanks for the tip. Wrote it down.
Ouch!!! Now that is getting a little spendy for this retired guy. I'll be hoping for a Haggis.
I have a custom Black Rhino saddle which was made to fit my round Polish Arabian and it also fit my Percheron, but had too much rock and was too narrow to fit my Haflinger. I would assume that it would be too narrow for your guy, but it is for sale.
@Captain Evil if ever there was a horse's body language screaming "I AM too sexy for this saddle", it's your Percheron:faceshot:
@sarahfromsc. Ditto on the Allegheny saddles! I was also going to suggest looking for an older Buena Vista Plantation saddle. I think either of these would look rather fetching on Hondo:loveshower:
http://www.sweatycracksaddlesandtack.com
^^^^Henry Miller trail saddles. Henry is a nephew (I think nephew) of Eli Miller who made the original Buena Vista plantation saddle.
The old plantation saddles are wide and, as Sarah commented, that may be something to look at, even though Hondo isn't gaited.
If you could find one for a few hundred dollars and it worked, that would at least tell you what you need to look for in a new custom saddle before you spent all that money.
Something else you might consider is a saddle with a Flex Tree. I have an old, custom made Orthoflex, from when R.L. Watson was building their trees. It's an excellent and well made saddle but it weighs around 34lbs, so it's going to sit, covered, in the attic until I get my price, or Armageddon gets here, lollol
I checked out the websites: those Alleghenys are some seriously pretty saddles! But if you can have a Sweaty Crack saddle... it would be worth price of the saddle just to be able to say it.
The thing that bothers me most about the $3-4-5k saddles is that they are all built upon at most a $300 tree.
Hondo rolled and broke a tree. I took my saddle apart and put in another exact same tree from the factory. Then I took it apart again and put in a FQH tree from Ralide.
From this experience it went solidly home to me that all the horse sees is the bottom of the bars and a slab of thick leather with fleece in between.
The rest of the $3-5K is put into what can be seen on top, of which I really care not. I'm more interested in fit and being able to pull the saddle off and place it in the dirt upside down without worrying about it.
So it's hard to think about spending the money for stuff I don't care about.
That said, I may still have to spend a chunk just to get the bottom of the saddle that I want.
Ha ha. I do like some of those sweatycrack saddles. And the price doesn't quite break my bank. So I emailed them and asked if they had anything at all in a draft width short saddle.
I just stumbled on this site, and even though some of the pictures... kinda :shock: actually, really make me cringe...
...the saddles looked interesting. No idea on prices.
Hey, I'm in the process of reading Tschiffeley's Ride from Buenos Aires to New York, 10,000 miles on the same two horses. He used an Argentina Gaucho saddle for the entire trip. Can't be that bad for long distance travel.
You know Al, . I think I'm going to back peddle on the older plantation saddles and that is because of the rigging.
They are single cinch saddles and can come up in the back on a horse that gets antsy; If Hondo is unflappable, that may not be an issue.
The old-style double cinch set up or the newer crossfire rigging might be better for serious trail riding.
I posted in Krones and Kodgers, the saddle I committed to from TN Saddlery has crossfire rigging ----- I'm going to have to learn how to cinch that saddle, lol
I bought the $339 saddle because I am not going to ride $339 worth but I now need a saddle if I want to ride either of my horses.
Here's another of his saddles that I like. Even though it says 6-3/4" gullet, the bars are flared to accommodate the huge sweeping shoulder motion of Tennessee Walkers.
There is also a comment this saddle is good for short-backed horses.
Hot diggity dog! Just got an email from Haggis Saddlery and yes they do have short bars and yes they can and have fit draft width horses. I had sent him three tracings and and a bunch of photos and he said he'd call so we could go over them.
So looks like Hondo's gonna get a custom saddle for his (valentine's day???) Prices are not bad and his lightweight model which I want is only 16 pounds.
Nothing to add, but I am definitely furiously making notes! Sully is short and wide as a truck with a short back to boot, and I need a saddle seat big enough for my fat butt. The Plantation saddles are super attractive on that score.
ALSO, FWIW, I really like the Henry Miller plantation saddles. I'm pretty sure he is the nephew of Eli Miller who made the old Buena Vista Plantation saddles.
I know a lady on another forum who has a small tack shop and just got in a Henry Miller saddle; I don't know if it's new or used but she is going to post some pictures as another lady on that forum is looking at Henry Miller saddles for her fat, low withered Walking Horse. If you like I can PM you the link so you can see the picture when she posts it.
What is great about plantation saddles for ANY breed is they are made for Walking Horses huge shoulder movement so the horse can easily perform its gait. It seems all that wither/shoulder room could benefit a lot of walk-trot horses as well.
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