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post #21 of 27 Old 03-28-2009, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ShowJumpLife View Post
according to pc manuals. The nut cracker action on a bit with shanks will over ride any curb leverage making it a rather mild bit.
It is true that there is LESS curb action with a broken mouthpiece than with a mullen mouthpiece on any shanked bit, however, the combination of a nutcracker coupled with any curb action can be very severe, and I'd only consider mild in educated hands.

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post #22 of 27 Old 03-30-2009, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ShowJumpLife View Post
according to pc manuals. The nut cracker action on a bit with shanks will over ride any curb leverage making it a rather mild bit.
It may lessen the leverage action, but there is still the action of the curb chain/strap as well as pressure on the poll. In short, the pressure applied by a (western) TT is different in both type and amount than that of a snaffle.
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post #23 of 27 Old 03-30-2009, 07:54 PM
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However, as a general rule, they should not be used, especially as a "transition" bit or on green horses. Most horses will gape or toss their head if you use the bit to direct rein (pully rein) or pull on it too hard to stop.
I just want to say here... from my experience a horse will gape or toss their head if you direct rein or pull too hard on MOST curb bits, especially those with high ports.

I really don't see a lot of difference between a curb bit with a jointed mouthpiece and a curb bit with a ported mouthpiece. Both bits are going to hit the roof of the horses mouth when pressure is applied. Ports provide tongue relief but they also add palate pressure. On horses with low palates, ported bits are like a torture device!!

I'm with Skippy!, a bit is definately only as harsh as the hands.

Also i'm nto sure who said it, but yes there are plenty of english bits that combine a jointed mouthpiece with a leverage effect. For example the dutch gag:



I see this bit used a TON in showjumping and even PC circles. It uses nearly the same action as a TT, but has nowhere near the same stigma attatched.

Personally, I don't ride any of my horses in anything more than a snaffle. Never have, with one exception, a horse I had who had been abused and had huge bit issues, on whom I used a ported kimberwick with no slots. (which was necessary, he worried over the snaffle so much he got his tongue over the bit and cut his mouth up) But I also have no need for the action of a curb bit. I ride with direct rein contact and neck reining.

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post #24 of 27 Old 03-30-2009, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by wild_spot View Post
I just want to say here... from my experience a horse will gape or toss their head if you direct rein or pull too hard on MOST curb bits, especially those with high ports.

I really don't see a lot of difference between a curb bit with a jointed mouthpiece and a curb bit with a ported mouthpiece. Both bits are going to hit the roof of the horses mouth when pressure is applied. Ports provide tongue relief but they also add palate pressure. On horses with low palates, ported bits are like a torture device!!

I'm with Skippy!, a bit is definately only as harsh as the hands.

Also i'm nto sure who said it, but yes there are plenty of english bits that combine a jointed mouthpiece with a leverage effect. For example the dutch gag:



I see this bit used a TON in showjumping and even PC circles. It uses nearly the same action as a TT, but has nowhere near the same stigma attatched.

Personally, I don't ride any of my horses in anything more than a snaffle. Never have, with one exception, a horse I had who had been abused and had huge bit issues, on whom I used a ported kimberwick with no slots. (which was necessary, he worried over the snaffle so much he got his tongue over the bit and cut his mouth up) But I also have no need for the action of a curb bit. I ride with direct rein contact and neck reining.

I refuse to use anything with shanks and a jointed mouth. If I end up using a kimberwicke, or a pelham, its gotta be mullen.
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post #25 of 27 Old 03-30-2009, 08:01 PM
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I have never used anything harsher than a mullen mouth low ported kimberwick, in that one situation, so i'm with you Jane Honda! but that is just my personal preference. I believe that if you can't acheive what you want in a snaffle, there is a hole in either yours or the horses training. Which was definately the case with the abused pony I had, poor fella.

I just don't think the amount of stigma atatched to the TT bit is deserved.

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post #26 of 27 Old 03-30-2009, 08:15 PM
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Oh absolutely on the elevator/gags bits being as harsh to harsher than a TT, but also you don't (at least I don't) hear about them being a mild bit either where a lot of people see the TT as mild bit which is untrue.

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post #27 of 27 Old 03-30-2009, 08:24 PM
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Okay, I can see that. I guess I don't hear a lot about them as I don't know anyone who uses a curb bit or even rides western! I didn't even know of the existance of a TT curb bit until I came on here. I would get confused everytime someone said they were harsh, cause to me a TT is a very mild snaffle, lol.

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