tom thumb and twisted wire - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 03:33 PM
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Have you tried a pulley stop?


You also might try tightening the circle at a canter until he has to break his pace. That works with Mia if I have room for the turns. Also, have you tried bits using pressure on the poll? It might help to add a cue without putting more pressure into his mouth. Also, when he doesn't want to stop, does he stretch his head out so it is nearly horizontal?
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Last edited by bsms; 04-05-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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post #12 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt View Post
Have you had his teeth checked recently? Saddle fit looked at by a professional? Have you enlisted the help of a qualified professional to work through this with you?
Bits do not fix problems. They are temporary band aids, at best.
Yes his tack is all fine and his teeth are good and I keep him at the barn with my trainer she said we're just going to have to try different bits I just am not sure about the tom thumb which she suggested which is why I posted this. It's just odd because he's perfectly fine at the walk and trot
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post #13 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt View Post
Have you had his teeth checked recently? Saddle fit looked at by a professional? Have you enlisted the help of a qualified professional to work through this with you?
Bits do not fix problems. They are temporary band aids, at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
People willing to fix training problems with tougher bits get under my skin, so I apologize for my getting some of my angst out.

If you just want a bit to get your horse under control instead of retraining what is wrong in the first place.....try some of these.






There are many even worse.

End of rant.......
So you're telling me that there aren't different bits for different reasons. Obviously different bits get different responses from different horses or else we would all be riding in the same bit. If he's running past the snaffle there's nothing I can do about it he is perfect at the walk and trot and turns into the devil at the lope. I asked for help finding another bit that would be good for my horse not torture devices...
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post #14 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 04:44 PM
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TT twisted wire seems pretty similar in harshness to the "torture devices" listed above.

Just because a bit is harsher doesn't mean it's used for a horse that doesn't respond to subtle cues. Horses can feel tiny flies land on their bum, what makes you think they don't feel even 1lb of pressure in their mouth... Broken 3 piece snaffle gives a ratio of 1:1 for every lb you pull the horse feels 1lb... There is no excuse for your horse to be "ignoring" your cues, yet, not need retraining.

life has no remote control hitch them up and drive them your self

Last edited by Ashleysmardigrasgirl; 04-05-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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post #15 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 04:50 PM
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Different bits are used for horses that have more training and can rely on a more subtle cue from a bit with a higher port or longer shank. For example, my reining mare can be ridden bridleless. I can stop her from a gallop with just my seat and voice because of training. However, in competition I use a correction bit with a medium port because it allows for more subtle communication and less movement of my hand to convey the same cue. I do NOT use it as a band-aid, as you seem to be trying to do.

My answer? Use a french link or single jointed snaffle (depending on the shape of her palate and preference). Eggbutt, loose ring or Dee ring....doesn't matter much. Eggbutt is my preference. This horse needs training, not a bigger bit.
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post #16 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 05:13 PM
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A calm horse can feel a fly landing on its butt. When my mare is calm, she stops from me settling into the seat. When she thinks she is racing another horse? Let's just say she doesn't stop for flies landing on her butt!

Ever hear the term, "has the bit in her teeth"?

"The earliest known use of the phrase is in John Dryden's satirical poem The Medal, 1682:

But this new Jehu spurs the hot-mounted horse,
Instructs the beast to know his native force,
To take the bit between his teeth and fly
To the next headlong steep of anarchy."

In an ideal world, we would all have endless hours to train our horses, and the facilities and area to do so. But that doesn't describe my world. Horses have wills. Some don't like to go fast. Others get intoxicated by it. A french link snaffle is no more the answer for every horse than a bitless bridle is, and for the same reason.

Mia seems very receptive to adding pressure on the poll. It just seems to be a cue that she understands, and has since the first time I tried a gag bit in her. We are also doing a lot of practice stops, because an OK stop at a trot is going to be a pee-poor stop at a gallop - if another horse is also galloping. By herself, she'll stop very quickly at a gallop. But she has a mind of her own, and sometimes uses it...
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... Energy is an admirable thing, but the energy of stupidity seldom avails much..." - On Seats and Saddles (1868), Francis Dwyer, Major of Hussars (light cavalry)

Last edited by bsms; 04-05-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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post #17 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 05:29 PM
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Yes, OP there are different bits for different purposes. But if you horse is blasting through a bit, then getting a harsher bit is never the answer. You are not teaching the horse anything by hiding behind stronger tack or training aids. There is obviously a hole in his training if there is no problem at the walk or trot and then he bulldogs you at the canter. It sounds to me as if your trainer needs to be helping you solve the problem, not giving you a harsher bit to mask it.

Also, in your thread title you said twisted wire bit but in your first post, you said slow twist. There is a world of difference between this...


And this....

"Keep a leg on each side and your mind in the middle"
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post #18 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassidilla View Post
So you're telling me that there aren't different bits for different reasons. Obviously different bits get different responses from different horses or else we would all be riding in the same bit. If he's running past the snaffle there's nothing I can do about it he is perfect at the walk and trot and turns into the devil at the lope. I asked for help finding another bit that would be good for my horse not torture devices...
Yep different bits will get different responses. Absolutely. Unfortunately many people will "bit up" instead of getting to the root of the problem. I've been there - I'm sad to admit as recently as last summer with my gelding. Why do we do it? Because it's easy. Easier than stripping training down and rebuilding the foundation to find out where the hole is. Unfortunately as well, many trainers prefer to go the "bit em up" route too.
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post #19 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 08:22 PM
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The only time I can 'agree or understand' bitting up is when someone is showing. I ride my guy in a ported correction bit, HOWEVER he has been schooled up into the bit and is very light and responsive. I have a very dusty cathedral bit, that I ride in once every few months, that is to be used for shows, not because he blast through the correction bit, but because it narrows my margin for error when it counts. It offers a little more subtlety and lightness required for the show pen. That's the ONLY reason I can agree or understand without an eye roll.
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post #20 of 39 Old 04-05-2013, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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It just doesn't make since because even in the full cheek snaffle at the walk and trot I just barely pull and I get a response but as soon as it's anything more it's all hell. But when I was just being dumb and working him on some cattle he listened to every cue. Even my friend can't figure out what's wrong with him he just kind of flips like a light switch out of no where
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