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tom thumb and twisted wire

This is a discussion on tom thumb and twisted wire within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category

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        04-06-2013, 12:10 PM
      #31
    Super Moderator
    I can understand someone wanting to try a different bit because they are finding their horse hard to stop but you're making a huge leap from a snaffle to a TT and a twisted bit.
    Chances are you're going to end up with a horse that's afraid of the bit and either runs away from the pain of it or learns to put its nose on its chest and then you really will be screwed. Someone had done this with my pinto and it took me a year and a mild rubber bit to get her out of it
    I've used a basic gag bit with a normal snaffle mouthpiece with 2 reins so you only use the gag rein when you need extra power on horses that got too strong out hunting and showjumping/cross country - someone posted a pic of one on a thread that punkstank started yesterday but I have a feeling that there's something more going on with your horse - either a basic training issue or a pain issue that should be looked into first.
         
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        04-06-2013, 01:33 PM
      #32
    Showing
    OP, like others have said, if pain and tooth issues have been sorted out, then it is a training problem, nothing more.

    Upping your power with a bit might work...for a while. BUT, within a few days or weeks, he'll be doing the same thing with the bigger bit so you move him up to an even bigger one...until he starts to ignore that one too. That turns into a vicious circle of him ignoring bigger and bigger bits

    Before you know it, you turn around and are slicing his mouth open with something like this and he's still running off with you.

    Allison Finch and Muppetgirl like this.
         
        04-06-2013, 11:54 PM
      #33
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flytobecat    
    OP like others have said, if he stops in a trot or walk then he is understanding your cues, and the bit is doing its job by communicating them.
    I rode my one mare in a tom thumb type bit for years, but only because that is the bit she came with & she rides with very little contact. It's easy to frustrate a horse with that type of bit if you don't have quiet hands.
    First I would pay attention to what you are doing in the lope and compare to how you ride when he is moving slower. You may be unconsciously cueing him forward. Are your legs tense, is your balance off, are you shifted forward, etc..
    Then you need to pay attention to the horse and get him thinking when he is moving fast. He needs to realize he's still working and not playing. Don't let him build momentum until he is out of control. Try loping a few strides then stopping, backing him up, and changing direction.
    It's hard to make suggestions without seeing you ride, but your trainer should be offering you better options than bitting up. How does the horse respond when the trainer rides him?
    I'm riding fine its really hard because he is a very social horse and just wants to be where the other horses are which is near the tree he always runs me in to. We've tried disengaging the hind quarters we've tried the should technique and it always ends in the bolting off sometimes its to where the other horses are or in some crazy pattern it got to the point where we were jumping logs and cones he won't stop until he reaches the fence and runs me through the branches of the tree (he doesn't hit anything himself)
    She's going to ride him tomorrow and see what he does it was suppose to be today but it rained I guess we'll see how it goes.
    I guess I must have worded wrong I didn't want a harsh bit which is why I asked for suggestion other than Tom thumb and the twisted wire
    I don't ride on a tight rein at all either
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        04-07-2013, 11:14 AM
      #34
    Super Moderator
    OP - this isn't a horse that's just 'strong' then, its a horse that's actually bolting with you and that is a training/behavioral issue that you wont sort out with a stronger bit because even if you stop him going forwards he'll start going upwards and that could develop into him flipping over.
    When a horse has a 'blue haze/no one home' moment they will ignore pretty much anything you do so you will have to go back to basics and address his 'buddy sour' I don't want to work with you attitude
    flytobecat, bsms and freia like this.
         
        04-07-2013, 12:58 PM
      #35
    Green Broke
    Can you ride him in a smaller area?

    If he where mine I'd ride him in the round pen, ours is about 20m. Trot him out for a while, then ask him to lope in a 10 or 15m circle. It's going to be pretty hard for him to gallop in such a small circle and its going to tire him out pretty quickly. If he can only do one circle or half, great. Break him down to the trot and the walk. Then rest again, another circle of loping. Try to make 1 circle into 2, then 2 into 3 and then eventually 3 into a lap around the round pen and then a few laps around the round pen. Graduate to a small arena and keep working up.

    I cannot stress how important it is to keep things calmmmmm. If he cannot trot or walk on the end of the reins calmly THAT is where you need to start. Make sure when you ask him to lope your doing it gently, not "slamming on the gas".

    If you increase the "size" of your bit this time it will only be a matter of time before you need a "bigger" one, then another "bigger" one after that. Fix it now BEFORE you really NEED those bits to control him. It won't be long until your riding in the bits pictured above.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    cassidilla likes this.
         
        04-07-2013, 01:03 PM
      #36
    Yearling
    So he's herd bound/Buddy sour then. He's not just a 'very social horse,' he trusts his herd more than you and he wants to be with them, and he's willing to completely ignore his rider and endanger you both to get there. If that is the case, YES, it's a training issue. You need to work with him so he sees that A) he can trust you as the herd leader and B) that the rest of the herd is not going to suddenly disappear if he can't see them, and they'll be just right there when he gets back.

    A stronger bit does NOT fix her bound issues. Training does.
    flytobecat and bsms like this.
         
        04-07-2013, 03:06 PM
      #37
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cassidilla    
    I'm riding fine its really hard because he is a very social horse and just wants to be where the other horses are which is near the tree he always runs me in to. We've tried disengaging the hind quarters we've tried the should technique and it always ends in the bolting off sometimes its to where the other horses are or in some crazy pattern it got to the point where we were jumping logs and cones he won't stop until he reaches the fence and runs me through the branches of the tree (he doesn't hit anything himself)
    She's going to ride him tomorrow and see what he does it was suppose to be today but it rained I guess we'll see how it goes.
    I guess I must have worded wrong I didn't want a harsh bit which is why I asked for suggestion other than Tom thumb and the twisted wire
    I don't ride on a tight rein at all either
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Now that you have more thoroughly explained the situation, it's obvious that this is more an issue of your horse wanting to carry out his thought of being with his buddies. It's not him just being a maniac at the canter.

    You might want to start looking into training techniques for working with a buddy sour horse.
    flytobecat likes this.
         
        04-09-2013, 12:24 PM
      #38
    Foal
    This weekend he will be completely alone without any of the other horses I guess we will see how that turns out then. The weather has been against me lately so I haven't gotten to try anything out.
         
        04-09-2013, 12:37 PM
      #39
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    Now that you have more thoroughly explained the situation, it's obvious that this is more an issue of your horse wanting to carry out his thought of being with his buddies. It's not him just being a maniac at the canter.

    You might want to start looking into training techniques for working with a buddy sour horse.
    I've looked for things to fix it I've tried the working their butt off around the other horses and peace and rest when he's by himself and he just doesn't seem to care. It only happens when we are loping too which is why it's strange he's fine any other time I even tie him in the barn by himself he sleeps. We're standing across pasture he sleeps. We're walking and trotting that's fine but the lope is just hell
    And he follows me around pasture when he sees me he leaves them alone and doesn't care about them... until we are loping
         

    Tags
    bit, need help, tom thumb, twisted wire

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