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Used Kieffer or new Wintec?

5K views 12 replies 9 participants last post by  Captain Evil 
#1 ·
I have a Haflinger who seems to have a very flat back, kind of muttony withers, and very round sides. I found a barely used Kieffer Amsterdam on ebay, but was not able to procure it. So now I have found a Kieffer Koblenz, used, for about $600.00, which I think could be adjusted to work on my horse. It is now medium wide, and I'm not sure what the procedure is to correctly adjust it.

This is it: Bicycle saddle Saddle English riding Horse tack Equestrianism


I could also get a Wintec, brand new, with the CAIR cushion system instead of wool flocking, also for about $600.00. It can be adjusted by my local tack shop for no additional charge.

Which of these do you think would work better, or would you keep looking?
 
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#2 ·
I don't like Wintec's or their CAIR, however I am a leather purist, hubby has the Wintec, he likes it, but then again, he doesn't ride like I do. I love that Kieffer, trade you that for the my hubby's wintec, lol.
 
#3 ·
I LOVE riding in Kieffers! So perfectly balanced. No fighting for position. No backaches. Just lovely.
I'm in pain in Wintecs. Yes, I know. People love them. I don't. I ride off my seat, and I just can't do it in the Wintecs.

The procedure for widening a Kieffer tree is to ship it to the awesome folks at Dressage Extensions, along with your tracing. Not all Kieffer trees can be adjusted. If you have the serial number, Dressage Extentions can check.

My concern with both those saddles is that neither is a hoop-tree, which is what most mutton-withered horses need. You can widen the gullet-plate, which will open up the angle/flare of the front of the saddle. But it won't make the gullet wide enough to correctly span that wither (just an educated assumption).
 
#5 ·
Both saddles are very unlikely to fit the typical Haflinger. A wintec wide maybe "could", but i don't thing you will be able to get the kieffer adjusted to fit the u shaped back. You are most likely going to need a hoop style tree. A duett or thornhill will be your best bet. But other hoop trees are out there. Kent and masters cob saddles. Black county.
 
#6 ·
I'm not a fan of Wintecs either, much prefer a good old fashioned leather saddle.

Pelham should let you take the saddle on trial, right? They're about an hour from me and I tried a bunch for my mare a couple of years ago. Personally, I had a pretty negative customer experience working with them and bought elsewhere, but most people seem to rave about them because of the generous trial policy.
 
#7 ·
If you need to adjust the leather one and it doesn't really even fit now, I'd keep looking until you find something that does. They do make Haflinger-specific saddles that may fit him better - Duett saddles supposedly are geared more towards the wider-backed horse.

If you want the best of both worlds (adjustable gullet/great quality for good price) I'd look at Thorowgood saddles. I've never ridden in one but they have great reviews and a lot of options for the wide-backed/mutton-withered horse.
 
#9 ·
I bought my baby sister a Wintec when she got her little mare, and it worked, but I never liked riding in it. I know Wintecs have improved a lot since then and the tack shop owner loves her Bates, but I sat in some new Wintecs and some new Bates last Saturday, and did not like them. But a new Wintec for $600.00.... if it would fit my horse, I told myself I could come to love it, especially since I have a really nice western saddle which I do love. But now it looks as though my western saddle is too narrow, so...

Arrghh, I guess I'll keep looking.
 
#8 ·
I don't like adjustable gullet saddles because they never fit just right. Call County Saddlery and have a representative come out to let you try saddle. They will be able to tell you exactly what type of saddle fits your horse. If too expensive, sometimes they have demo saddles that are reasonable or then you may be able to find the exact one on Ebay that has been used for a great price. But at least you will get an idea what your horse needs.
 
#11 ·
I contacted some tack shops about Kieffers: the Kieffer Koblenz, the Kieffer Europa, and another one; I forgot which. Anyway, opinions are: the Koblenz is too old and too narrow to be successfully refitted, just as you guys surmised. The Europa would need to be sent to Stubben to see if it would be possible, and, of course, I would have to purchase it first. The Amsterdam is not made anymore, but has been replaced by the Bavaria, so maybe I will find another maybe not.

Pelham saddlery has a few suggestions, including a Stubben Scandia, a KN Apollo or a Symphonie, all three of which I like, expecially the Symphonie. So I did some wither tracings and took some photos, and them measured him using a Wintec ... Like a cardboard measured, using that, and he came out as a 3x wide, almost a 4x wide.

Huh.
 
#12 ·
I have a saddle that would likely fit. It's under the classifeds. A Tony Slatter for $425. I have a tracing of the tree. Very wide.

I love the Stubben Scandicas. I just have never seen one that wide. Saddles made for Icelandics might be an option, as are Duetts and some Thornhills.
 
#13 ·
I got i touch with Kieffer USA to see if they had any suggestions, and they did... way more expensive solutions than I had originally hoped for. (...than that for which I had originally hoped? How am I supposed to say that? English is hard...)

It would be about $500.00 to have a Kieffer re-sized for my horse, and only a handful of models would be good to start with. Ron, the man I spoke with, was very nice and extremely helpful. I took photos of my horse's conformation which were then analyzed using a computer program.

Oddly, the Amsterdam, which was designed for Haflinger-types, is not a great choice for him. Ron suggested the Kieffer Lusitano or Passion USA, or any of the Pegasus Butterfly saddles ($4,900.00 or thereabouts).

The Amsterdam I put a bid on and lost was about $1200.00. Then it would have been $500.00 to have it re-fitted, and then I would need girth & stirrups. Kieffer has a package deal on a demo Passion USA for $1795.00 which includes fitting to Snort or Fathom or whatever his name will be, and includes girth and leathers. It is a little fancy for me, but might look cute on a Haffie. Here it is:
Well, can't post a picture, cause I have used up all my picture data. But is it sort of suedish leather with a design stitched into it.
 
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