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What bit would you suggest? Currently use a Wonder Bit

This is a discussion on What bit would you suggest? Currently use a Wonder Bit within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • German martingale barrel racing how to put together
  • Ken mcnabb

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    03-14-2013, 02:33 AM
  #31
Green Broke
I just saw on RFD tv, a series on bits. The trainer on that show suggest a snaffle with a donut in the middle .. ----o---- , as this type of bit will allow you to control each side of the horses head . To attach to the O ring directly and not to the shanks. Hope this gives you an idea.
     
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    03-14-2013, 07:46 AM
  #32
Weanling
Sounds like you should use that German martingale, along with a nice Snaffle. He should be breaking at the poll and everything else with a great deal of responsiveness regardless of the bit. I'm not a fan of changing bits to help achieve and teach headset or responsiveness. Although, I am a HUGE fan of the German martingale. I can't think of one horse I've trained that I couldn't get them soft by using a Snaffle and German martingale. IMO, go back to those tools and teach him what he NEEDS to know, then you may can use your wonder bit as your "competition bit" in the future. I love the wonder bit and know a lot of girls who use them on their speed events horses and ponies since they do the gymnaka(sp?) and not just strictly barrel racing. I think your best bet to teach your horse is a d ring and german martingale. Good luck.
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    03-14-2013, 10:22 AM
  #33
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenson    
I just saw on RFD tv, a series on bits. The trainer on that show suggest a snaffle with a donut in the middle .. ----o---- , as this type of bit will allow you to control each side of the horses head . To attach to the O ring directly and not to the shanks. Hope this gives you an idea.
LOL, I just watched my recorded episode yesterday too.

It was Ken McNabb and I thought he did a very nice job of explaining the full-cheek snaffle and the donut O-ring snaffle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
Sounds like you should use that German martingale, along with a nice Snaffle. He should be breaking at the poll and everything else with a great deal of responsiveness regardless of the bit. I'm not a fan of changing bits to help achieve and teach headset or responsiveness. Although, I am a HUGE fan of the German martingale. I can't think of one horse I've trained that I couldn't get them soft by using a Snaffle and German martingale. IMO, go back to those tools and teach him what he NEEDS to know, then you may can use your wonder bit as your "competition bit" in the future. I love the wonder bit and know a lot of girls who use them on their speed events horses and ponies since they do the gymnaka(sp?) and not just strictly barrel racing. I think your best bet to teach your horse is a d ring and german martingale. Good luck.
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I guess I put together the Wonder Bit and the German Martingale because that's how they had it strung together where I purchased it.
Ed Wright German Martingale - The Tack Stop

How would I exactly do that with just a snaffle? Just simply hook the reins on the same ring that the martingale leather runs through too? Like this?
(Mine doesn't have a neck strap, but I just run the bottom through a loop on my breastcollar so he can't get a leg through it.)




I never really thought to try it with my snaffle, because I felt like I'd be doing something wrong by stringing both through the same ring.

I suppose I could have posted what my snaffle bit looks like that I use on him.

     
    03-14-2013, 10:33 AM
  #34
Weanling
I have mine set up exactly like that photo, without the neck strap though. If you have very soft and independent hands I may would even suggest a draw bit.
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    03-14-2013, 10:35 AM
  #35
Weanling
Just saw where a Loomis was recommended, same thing lol.
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    03-14-2013, 10:41 AM
  #36
Weanling
Fitting the German Martingale - YouTube
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    03-14-2013, 10:08 PM
  #37
Trained
I agree with Ariat on trying the German Martingale with a snaffle rather than the Wonder Bit. The German martingale is good in small doses as a reminder or to teach but shouldn't be relied on to create a "headset". It is easy to create a false headset with one, the headset don't mean sh!t if the ass isn't connected to it if you know what I mean :)
     
    03-15-2013, 03:43 PM
  #38
Trained
Wow.
I'm going to be nice, and make one response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
He tried to buck 2 or 3 times when I first got him, ...
I would have sold this horse at the very next auction, bc I was stupid when I bought him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
I can't even recall him even pulling on the lead the handful of times he has spooked or something on the leadrope.
But I'm NOT going to yank on his halter, simply because he didn't notice my "glare" cue to ask him to disengage his hindquarters.
How often does he spook when being led? Mine don't spook when I lead them, but I demand perfect leading behavior, never ahead, never behind, always willing to stop when I do, walk when I do, back immediately on cue. I even back my 6yo geldings into the stall gate, the trailer and wheelbarrows. They don't flinch bc we do it all of the time. It's called, "desinsitisation."
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
But I am going to start tapping progressively harder on him with my carrot stick, or twirling the end of the lead rope, to make my request stronger until he gives me the correct response. I am going to give him a chance to respond and an opportunity to respond and not just YANK on him immediately. I won't do that. And I don't stop asking him until I get the correct response. It usually only takes using the carrot stick or the end of the lead rope once, and then he'll do it with a glare (disengage the hindquarters). So even though he may not focus on me right away, he is NOT getting away with it.
It's all about who is the head broodmare or head stallion. A horse (or a dog, or a cat, or any animal) doesn't understand equal. One of you is the boss. Head broodmares pin the ears or raise the leg and give ONE chance to move, then they bite or kick. THIS is what every horse understands. Your "tapping" is just an annoyance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
But when riding and he loses focus on me, are you then suggesting I YANK on his mouth? Or kick him in the belly? Or what???
Yeah, if I haven't finished my training right, and my horse does something dangerous, I WILL yank him in the mouth. He'll recover. I want to live through the ride so that I can train another day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
Because that will NOT work with him. He is very, very, very sensitive. I carried a whip one time to help prevent him from "drifting" on one side of his loping circles, and he about came unglued and all I did was barely tap his shoulder a time or two. He bred to be a barrel horse. He's very sensitive and very reactive.
One "very" would have been enough. He's kinda like your bad boyfriend that girls like to make excuses for bc a bad bf is better than none at all.
A GOOD horse is quiet to being tied, tacked up, trailered and new places. A GOOD horse is responsive to invisible cues from the rider.
A BAD horse spooks indiscriminately. A BAD horse doesn't want to you tell him what to do.
Glad I don't own your horse. Do as you will, and stop beating US up bc we want to help.
     
    03-15-2013, 07:46 PM
  #39
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal    
Glad I don't own your horse. Do as you will, and stop beating US up bc we want to help.
I don't understand how I am beating you up? You're the one telling me I have a BAD horse. Sure, he's not perfect. He's obviously got flaws. But I really have no urge to sell him. Despite his issues, I greatly enjoy riding him.

I'm glad you don't own him either, because he has a sensitive reactive personality, and I feel like he would have blown up on you by now via your methods. I've been making great process with him considering it's really a lengthy process to undo 6 years of bad handling from his previous owners, especially when that's all he's ever known. That's not going to be undone overnight. I have no idea if you've ever dealt with a high-strung "bred to run" barrel horse, but they are certainly something different to deal with. I'm not starting on a clean slate here.

You'd send a new horse down the road simply from him testing you a couple times with bucking? For the sake of any new horses you ever purchase, I hope they never make such a mistake. Humans make mistakes all the time; I wouldn't expect a horse never to make a mistake, especially if they were not taught otherwise in the first place.

That's fine if you don't like CA's tapping method. I feel that it is working great for Red. It's a low stress, productive technique that keeps him calm (most of the time, unless I do need to get after him) which is my goal with most things I do. Sure, I bet my timing could be better, and I bet I could execute it better, but I'm learning here too the best I can.

This is my first time having a nicely-bred barrel horse, and some of them certainly have their quirks. They've typically got attitude too. Most (of course, not all) good barrel horses you see at the NFR have attitude. That's why they're so gritty and run so hard. One example was Jill Moody's great horse Dolly. The saddle bronc riders would always joke the Jill was a better rider than they were because Dolly could put on quite the bucking show while in the warm up pen. Was she a BAD horse? Maybe. But she was a dang GOOD barrel horse.

Quote:
Yeah, if I haven't finished my training right, and my horse does something dangerous, I WILL yank him in the mouth. He'll recover. I want to live through the ride so that I can train another day.
I would not call Red finished and never claimed he was. He was green broke at best when I purchased him. So that's another reason why I do not want to yank or kick on him, when he's having an anxiety attack the way it is. He is learning tons, and still has much more learning to go.

Hence why I'm here.

I still don't see why you think you're being attacked. I've just been trying to explain Red to you the best I can, and that I am NOT letting him get away with poor ground manners. My technique is just different than yours.
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    03-15-2013, 10:15 PM
  #40
Trained
I think a german martingale would be a good tool. I still use draw reins on Ruger every now and then. I don't use tools like that in anything but snaffles to be honest.

I agree that Red is a green horse. He is sensitive. Some horses are just like that. Selena is not, Ruger is not, but I have worked with many a barrel horse that is. There is nothing wrong with a personality like that. You have to take into account what type of horse you are riding. Example, I could beat up on Selena all day and she won't panic, buck, jump, or anything. I am currently putting 30 days on a mare for a friend, and if I smacked her or pushed her around like I do Selena I'd be on my ass in the dirt in a heartbeat. For her, a simple hindquarter disengagement is devastating. For Selena, that's nothing.

Red is a horse who needs you to get inside his head IMO. Seeing as he is green(er), I would do a ton of small, perfect, flexed circles. Just something simple like that and demanding perfection. It doesn't have to be a huge production with him I suspect.

I don't think you're doing much wrong here. You have experience and you know what you're doing so I don't believe any of the claims by Corporal were really correct about him being "bad". Saying a horse is sensitive isn't an excuse, it's a fact.
     

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