What type of bit is this? - Page 2
 
 

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What type of bit is this?

This is a discussion on What type of bit is this? within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Root bit for horse that evades the bit
  • Breaker bit for horses

 
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    09-26-2009, 09:49 PM
  #11
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    
A waterford bit - lets just say OUCH. These are jaw breakers. The bit wraps around the horses lower jaw - and lets just say, Yeah, I'd try to escape the pain too if it were in my mouth.


Sorry, but if you have to use a bit such as the Waterford to get your horse to lighten up, then you aren't riding him correctly. The reason why a horse pulls and takes the bit, is because they are NOT BALANCED

The pressure from this multijointed bit just makes the horse evade the pain up front, when in all actuallity, your horse still IS NOT balanced, nor working properly. You take this gimick away, guess what - your horse is back to where they were in the first place - leaning into their riders hands, because their rider has no idea how to ride seat first and start back to basics with the Training Scale.

Yep, it's a quick fix. Doesn't solve anything in the long run.
I have to disagree that this is a harsh bit; it simply collapses where the horse tries to take advantage of the bit. I would not consider it a "jaw breaker" - I cannot understand the mechanics behind that, really.
Of course if you misuse the bit (see sawing, pulling) it is going to be harsh; but so would any bit.
I do agree that NO BIT will make a horse lighten up in front; at least not correctly.
     
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    09-26-2009, 09:54 PM
  #12
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    
A waterford bit - lets just say OUCH. These are jaw breakers. The bit wraps around the horses lower jaw - and lets just say, Yeah, I'd try to escape the pain too if it were in my mouth.


Sorry, but if you have to use a bit such as the Waterford to get your horse to lighten up, then you aren't riding him correctly. The reason why a horse pulls and takes the bit, is because they are NOT BALANCED

The pressure from this multijointed bit just makes the horse evade the pain up front, when in all actuallity, your horse still IS NOT balanced, nor working properly. You take this gimick away, guess what - your horse is back to where they were in the first place - leaning into their riders hands, because their rider has no idea how to ride seat first and start back to basics with the Training Scale.

Yep, it's a quick fix. Doesn't solve anything in the long run.
well said MIE. It's a great bit in the right hands for a one or two time ride as a correction bit for a horse that is dead set on pulling/rooting but all it does is back the horse off the bit. It doesn't teach collection or rounding or balance. One you use the bit, you need to follow up with a training ride back in a regular snaffle to drive the horse forward with seat/leg and teach them to reach for the bit rather than root/pull. There are few times that i've ever needed such a bit, and when I have it's been used only for one ride and then followed up with proper training.

I have ONE horse that goes in this as his regular bit BUT he's a HUGE exception. Due to time on the track he has massive scar tissue across where the bit goes, and this is the only bit he likes and reaches for. We think (and agreed by dentist and vet) that it's likely b/c it's the only bit he can feel and as such actually accept the contact with. It's bizarre, but he loves it, but like I said he's by far the exception.
     
    09-26-2009, 09:56 PM
  #13
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
I have to disagree that this is a harsh bit; it simply collapses where the horse tries to take advantage of the bit. I would not consider it a "jaw breaker" - I cannot understand the mechanics behind that, really.
Of course if you misuse the bit (see sawing, pulling) it is going to be harsh; but so would any bit.
I do agree that NO BIT will make a horse lighten up in front; at least not correctly.
a way that I use to test harshness/feel of the bit that I make my students do is to lay the bit in the crook of your elbow then bend your elbow to see how it feels as someone "pulls back on the reins". Now imagine that was your mouth and not the inside of your arm....

This bit in particular when you do that wraps around the elbow joint and can be quite painful because there's no limit to the nutcracker feel - it's even stronger in that it will literally wrap around your arm.
     
    09-26-2009, 10:01 PM
  #14
Showing
Fair enough, thank you for the information.

I have been considering trying this bit on Denny, and I have good hands, so I tend to look at bits that way :P
     
    09-26-2009, 10:10 PM
  #15
Started
It's a great correction bit in the right hands, and i've used it as such. When I say correction bit - by that I mean a bit used for one or two rides to correct a specific problem on a horse to break a habit so that then more basic tools such as a single jointed bit or french link, etc. can be used and be effective again b/c the horse's bad habit has been broken by use of the correction bit.

For example, with a waterford, it's great for a horse that root - excessive leaning and diving down on the bit pulling, where even when dropped the horse still will grab and root. The waterford will be strong that the horse can't lean and when he roots it will wrap around the lower jaw causing strong discomfort - pain (depending on the rider's hands) and usually the horse will back off, and cease rooting. After one - two rides of this, the horse usually then will have learned that rooting is not an acceptable behavior. At that point you should (imo) switch to a two or three piece snaffle and resume training for self carriage and balance.

Hope that explanation helps! :)
     
    09-27-2009, 01:37 AM
  #16
Trained
Quote:
a way that I use to test harshness/feel of the bit that I make my students do is to lay the bit in the crook of your elbow then bend your elbow to see how it feels as someone "pulls back on the reins". Now imagine that was your mouth and not the inside of your arm....

This bit in particular when you do that wraps around the elbow joint and can be quite painful because there's no limit to the nutcracker feel - it's even stronger in that it will literally wrap around your arm
Exactly. That is how I was taught in Pony Club and have always carried that "teaching" with me. I remember at the Equine Affair that was held in Detroit Michigan a couple of years ago, I took a Bitting Clinic that was taught by the Myler Brothers - and the Waterford was one of the bits that we got to feel in effect first hand.

That bit hurts. It hurts more so than a slow twist single jointed snaffle.


Quote:
it simply collapses where the horse tries to take advantage of the bit
Sorry, but it doesn't simply do anything of the sort. This bit is designed to wrap around the horses lower jaw and it creates severe pain to the horse Just as CJ8sky explained. I don't want to sound like a broken record.

The exact way this bit was designed, is how it obtained it's well known name as the "Jawbreaker".

I dislike this bit, very much. Just as CJ8Sky said, this bit should only be used when a horse has a specific, serious issue of rooting - only after the rider has done all they could to solve the issue firstly. I personally believe that majority of leaners can be solved by going back to the Training Scale, the rider using seat into legs into hands accordingly using a snaffle.

You give your horse something to lean into, they'll take it.
     
    09-27-2009, 12:21 PM
  #17
Showing
Hm, must be personal feeling on the subject from riders who ride with a deathgrip... I've asked about them on another forum, and they seem to have gotten a good response
     
    09-27-2009, 12:27 PM
  #18
Trained
Right. Just like how some people think that a slow twisted wire snaffle is acceptable. And a Single Jointed Egg Butt Gag Bit is perfectly acceptable. Or a Kimberwick with a chain.

It's in the eye of the beholder. And those who want to use it, hear what they want to hear.

You ask 5 people what to do with a horse who has a hard mouth, you'll get 6 different answers.

The waterford is a not a nice bit.

If it was an acceptable bit, it would be permitted in the dressage world right.

Why in the world would you even want to use this bit with Denny anyways?
     
    09-27-2009, 02:21 PM
  #19
Showing
It is something I have been considering.
I have had an obsession with bits lately; it's something I wouldn't mind having in my tack locker. I do not have hard, harsh hands. Everything I have heard except for on this thread has been actually quite positive for the waterford, when you take into consideration that I will not be misusing it.
A bit is only as soft as the hands behind it; I showed my mare in a loose ring snaffle english, and a spade western - I didn't touch her mouth, I know how to respect the bit.
     
    09-27-2009, 04:11 PM
  #20
Foal
Smile your bit could be..............

A joint like this
     

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