Why twisted wire snaffles bits... - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Why twisted wire snaffles bits...

In catalogs?

Whenever I stumble upon the western section of catalogs (like big dee's or Jeffers equine) they almost always have tons and tons of options of loose ring twisted wire snaffles.

Why it this? I know the English side of the world has their bad bits (kimberwicks always show up -please don't preach to me about how I called it bad, I called it bad because it is leverage and that makes it have more pressure in any hand) that catalogs love to advertise, but I never have really seen too many loose ring twisted wire snaffles on any of the western horses at the barn I ride at.

Why do you think that these companies push twisted snaffles on you westerners?
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post #2 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 12:40 AM
rob
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on a young horse or a penner or sorter the twisted wire has more grab to it

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post #3 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goingnowhere1 View Post
...please don't preach to me about how I called it bad, I called it bad because it is leverage and that makes it have more pressure in any hand...

Why do you think that these companies push twisted snaffles on you westerners?
No one pushes any bit on any riders. People choose to buy them, or not.

Leverage on a bit isn't bad. Neither is a twisted wire, I suppose, if you have the hands to make them work. Meanwhile, I've removed a lot of hair from my horse's face using a rope bitless bridle, and I've used far too much pressure in her mouth using a snaffle she didn't respect.

I prefer going to a leveraged bit (using poll pressure outside the mouth) to going with a sharper snaffle inside the mouth - but some good trainers recommend twisted wire bits for some purposes. I don't have the experience to tell them they are wrong, IF the rider is good.

Please remember that not all horses are the same, and some will cheerfully ignore a simple snaffle. Mia behaves fine with a simple snaffle for about 95% of riding or more. But an excited horse who knows she can run thru a simple snaffle is NOT fun to ride, either.

It isn't just a training issue. Once a horse figures out how to 'get the bit in his teeth', a plain snaffle will always leave the horse that option. Training will reduce the likelyhood of a horse using that option, but not eliminate the knowledge entirely. Also, a good trainer can use the harsher bit the same way a good trainer can use a crop - to train for a softer response. Of course, a hamfist with a crop can make a mess of a horse, too.

All IMHO as a nobody rider.

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing...well, ignore it mostly."
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post #4 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 01:38 AM
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Twisted wire bits are bad. I have actually had great success with them. Never had a horse show discomfort, no bloody lips, or anything that would lead me to believe they are bad. I have tried to make it pinch my own skin as well and have not had it do so unless I yank hard. I will not deny there is a little more grab, like Rob said, however it is not bad in the right hands.
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Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #5 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 02:42 AM
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Twisted wire bit aint bad at all- i like it better than a slow twist-- a twisted wire bit aint ment for long term use anyway though- its made more for makin a horses mouth softer and sharpenin up a dull mouth.. not sayin it has to be used this way- just the way i use it and every person has a different method.
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post #6 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rob View Post
on a young horse or a penner or sorter the twisted wire has more grab to it
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree about putting a twiste wire snaffle on a young horse. If you have to use a bit with more "grab to it," as you put it, then there are massive holes in the horse's training.
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post #7 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum View Post
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree about putting a twiste wire snaffle on a young horse. If you have to use a bit with more "grab to it," as you put it, then there are massive holes in the horse's training.
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Anddd I'm back again to defend something I'll probably get chewed out for.

You would be surprised how many young horses actually benefit greatly from having this little bit of "extra". Doesn't mean you have to use it.

Often times when you put a young horse on a cow they are going to do what they are bred to do and that is try and work that cow. You take a young horse, get them on cows, take them to their first penning and sorting when you are prepared to fly mach 20 after a cow and stop and turn on a time in a brand new show environment...Yeah, I'd probably want that extra too. There's a reason I don't work my mare on cows in a snaffle. Not that I couldn't do it, but she's such a cow eating monster I need that extra "Hey, listen here stupid" should she decide that day is the blue moon and wants to run through my hands to get to the cow.

That doesn't mean there's something wrong with her training. It means that she's an aggressive cow horse who wants to work. it takes a lot of schooling miles to get those horses ready to show lightly, and sometimes it takes hours at local pennings and sorting just asking them to work hard and then correcting the things you need to. It's a developing thing. Going out into a new place with a young horse, you need to be prepared for that sort of thing. A good amount of training happens AT the show, and yes, for me it would probably happen in my "go time" bit. And yes, it probably would be a twisted snaffle on a young horse.

Just my two cents, after working a good long time with young horses at shows.

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #8 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post
...There's a reason I don't work my mare on cows in a snaffle. Not that I couldn't do it, but she's such a cow eating monster I need that extra "Hey, listen here stupid" should she decide that day is the blue moon and wants to run through my hands to get to the cow...
I've never worked cattle, Mia is no cow horse, and I don't have broad experience. However, while she works fine in a standard snaffle most of the time, she is competitive with other horses going fast (canter on up). The leveraged bit I now use with her is meant to give us a bigger margin of safety for those times when her inner Secretariat comes out and she decides she MUST beat the other horse at any cost!

What is gentler - fighting a horse who is throwing its head, swerving, and using all its strength to reject your control in a simple snaffle, or using a bit the horse respects and will not fight? When my mare gets her blood up, there is nothing gentle about riding her in a simple snaffle! It seems the same would be true of a horse that is passionate about jumping, or about working cattle, or that lives to go fast around barrels. With enough time & opportunity, it may be possible to train the horse to only use that passion when asked...but how do you GET to that point? It seems to me you need to use a stronger bit to teach them to rely on the rider's judgment.
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post #9 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post
Anddd I'm back again to defend something I'll probably get chewed out for.

You would be surprised how many young horses actually benefit greatly from having this little bit of "extra". Doesn't mean you have to use it.

Often times when you put a young horse on a cow they are going to do what they are bred to do and that is try and work that cow. You take a young horse, get them on cows, take them to their first penning and sorting when you are prepared to fly mach 20 after a cow and stop and turn on a time in a brand new show environment...Yeah, I'd probably want that extra too. There's a reason I don't work my mare on cows in a snaffle. Not that I couldn't do it, but she's such a cow eating monster I need that extra "Hey, listen here stupid" should she decide that day is the blue moon and wants to run through my hands to get to the cow.

That doesn't mean there's something wrong with her training. It means that she's an aggressive cow horse who wants to work. it takes a lot of schooling miles to get those horses ready to show lightly, and sometimes it takes hours at local pennings and sorting just asking them to work hard and then correcting the things you need to. It's a developing thing. Going out into a new place with a young horse, you need to be prepared for that sort of thing. A good amount of training happens AT the show, and yes, for me it would probably happen in my "go time" bit. And yes, it probably would be a twisted snaffle on a young horse.

Just my two cents, after working a good long time with young horses at shows.


Now i dont want you to be offended and im not tellin you youre wrong- every equestrian has their own method for their madness, lol.

I do disagree with puttin a bit in a horses mouth thats got more power to it for a cattle aggressive horse- this is an undesireable trait for a workin cow horse. I would work on correctin the aggression towards cattle rather than use a stronger bit- i like for my horse to pay attention and counteract a cows movement rather than try to attack it-- if youve got a cattle aggressive horse that means the rider does all the thinkin and has to fight a horse off a cow.

I like a horse to listen to me and my every command but will keep an eye on the cow and react only to their reactions- not to chase a cow but to know how to make em move.. its like havin to constantly hold back your rowdy friend at a bar, lol. how delightfully white trash, right?
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post #10 of 29 Old 06-02-2013, 03:43 PM
rob
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im sorry drafty but im assuming you havent started enough big boned strong headed youngsters or rode across a pen 90 miles an hour and tryed to stop them on a dime or get their head up most of the time a bubble gum snaffle or smooth mouth as you know of it doesnt always work im a little trainer and i need leverage cause hes alot bigger than i am
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