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Wintec 500 with cair

This is a discussion on Wintec 500 with cair within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • Channel width on wintec saddles
  • Normal wintec saddle channel width

 
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    12-31-2010, 10:53 PM
  #11
Green Broke
Soo I need to find someone who can look at the cair when I sit down in the saddle? Would that be a call for a saddle fitter?
     
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    12-31-2010, 11:54 PM
  #12
Foal
Thats a great result...
     
    01-01-2011, 12:01 AM
  #13
Started
Superb! I love that about the Easy-Change System! It may not be able to work miracles but it definitely helps. I am a huge fan of both ECS and CAIR.
So it sounds to me like you're covered, unless anything is still looking weird. If it fits really well without you in the saddle, it will only fit even better with you in it (because of the way CAIR is, how it's supposed to further conform to the horse's back after the weight, as mentioned)
     
    01-01-2011, 09:36 AM
  #14
Trained
I would still suggest you getting a Professional to come out and assess the saddle on your horses back.
     
    01-01-2011, 01:02 PM
  #15
Showing
Agreed, MIE. Very few people, even really experienced trainers, can truly tell if a saddle fits. For example, my friend's mare started acting up a bit - just in the slightest way, mind - and we couldn't figure out what it was. Between me, my friend, and her trainer we had almost 100 years' experience (combined) and none of us thought the saddle was an awful fit. Had a saddle fitter out... The saddle was too narrow (it was a wide tree) and had caused deep muscle bruising.
Unless you're trained in saddle fitting, you have an educated guess at best. I highly suggest you have a fitter out to make sure its fitting well... Better safe than sorry!!
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    01-01-2011, 01:12 PM
  #16
Trained
Unless you're trained in saddle fitting, you have an educated guess at best. I
Quote:
highly suggest you have a fitter out to make sure its fitting well... Better safe than sorry!!

EXACTLY! Thank you for sharing! It drives me BONKERS when people get their saddle assessed by someone at the barn they board at, or their Coach or WHOMEVER, who doesn't know what they think they know when it comes to fitting a saddle, properly.

You can read as many posts on a forum, and you can watch video's like what I posted in that thread "Does your saddle really fit?" but you still are not a Professional Saddler.

Only someone, who does this for a career, someone trained, apprenticed and taught how to make saddles, fit saddles and assess them, can decipher whether your saddle fits or not.

I don't mind "does my saddle fit?" threads on forums, but still - someone on the internet, educated or not, cannot decipher the exacts on a computer screen - only someone who is there IN PERSON, who is educated, experienced and well trained on the matter, can tell you.

You're a fool, if you take the word of someone who is not a Professional in this field.
     
    01-01-2011, 01:28 PM
  #17
Started
That's a bit extreme to say...no one out here I'm aware of has ever had a saddle fitter out. I have not. I quite don't think I am a fool for that.
IMO if you follow the videos and check it, the horse moves out cleanly and happily, the sweat stains are even, everything seems totally in check, unless you have a ton of money to burn you're good to go. Maybe that's an area to area thing, but where I was raised it's not like that. I don't think there's any need for anybody to call anyone a fool for that.
     
    01-01-2011, 03:50 PM
  #18
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    
Unless you're trained in saddle fitting, you have an educated guess at best...You're a fool, if you take the word of someone who is not a Professional in this field.
I disagree. You have an expert there - your horse.

First, saddle fitting - except for high levels of competition - isn't rocket science. The better the saddle conforms to the back of the horse, the better. Look at the front from the front. Does the angle where the tree is match the angle of the horse's body? Is the gullet width right - too thin, and the saddle will tilt up in the front, too wide, and the saddle will settle in the front. Does the saddle stay off the spine and clear the withers? Does the curve of the tree, both along the horse's back and perpendicular to it, match the horse? Does the saddle extend too far back?

Second, the horse - listen. When you get on or off, does the horse tense up? When you sit the trot, is the horse relaxed or bothered? Some horses are more pain tolerant than others, but if you have a happy horse, even sweat marks, no dry spots and the curves of the saddle match the curve of your horses back, then for most riders, that is good enough.

I've got an Appaloosa (mostly Arab) who was ridden for years herding sheep. He got whatever saddle was available, was ridden 8-14 hours at a shot, and did fine. He was loaned to a ranch in Colorado, where they put a poor fitting saddle on him and rode him hard...cut his withers, put white spots on his shoulders and for good measure they spurred his sides bloody. But the problem was they didn't give a rat's rear about the horse, not that they didn't know the saddle was wrong.

A few horses have odd problems, and horses being used at high levels of competition may need careful attention to help them max perform. But the average pleasure horse isn't ridden so much as to require perfect fit. Take a close look at the saddle/back match, both with and without a rider. Watch your horse for signs of discomfort. It isn't that hard.
     
    01-01-2011, 04:15 PM
  #19
Showing
Bsms, my friend's mare is not a high level performer, nor is she ridden every day - more like a few times a week at best. The saddle didn't fit, and it caused deep muscle bruising that took a long time to heal. The nice thing is that my friend is very in tune with her horse - she noticed the mare acting a tad off before any of us. Listen to your horse, absolutely, but if you are in any way doubting the fit, you should most definitely get an expert out. Gidget sounds unsure of the fit, and everything she's said in this thread leads me to believe that the saddle doesn't fit, but that is my educated guess.
If you don't know, especially for saddle fit which is fundamentally important for your horse's well-being, you should consult a professional.
A saddle is a piece of equipment that has to fit both rider and horse. Saddle fit is as important in riding as shoe fit is to runners - if you've got an ill fitting shoe, running isn't going to be enjoyable. And it can cause gait, muscle, and structural problems.


/soapbox
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    01-01-2011, 04:42 PM
  #20
Trained
Quote:
The better the saddle conforms to the back of the horse, the better. Look at the front from the front. Does the angle where the tree is match the angle of the horse's body? Is the gullet width right - too thin, and the saddle will tilt up in the front, too wide, and the saddle will settle in the front. Does the saddle stay off the spine and clear the withers? Does the curve of the tree, both along the horse's back and perpendicular to it, match the horse? Does the saddle extend too far back?
Is the Channel width wide enough? Or not narrow enough? The way the panels are shaped, are they gusseted or are they not? Are the panels angled properly? The Flaps, are they too forward? Are they too strait? Where's the tree point? Does the saddle rest on the ribs, or is it resting on the spine? Is your horse A Symetrical? If so, how are you going to accomodate that? Does the saddle fit you correctly? Etc, etc, etc, etc...

Yes, I agree that there should be more educated people on these matters when looking at saddles, instead of just thinking that because it is a "wide" and their horse is a "Wide" then all is good. I do wish that people were more educated on the panels and the channel width and the tree point position and the curve of the tree and the length of the saddle and etc, etc, etc, etc, etc - but sadly, the ratio of that education is low in compareson to those who do know these factors.

There is far more to proper saddle fit, than the "Average Joe" understands. There are those like us, who know "enough" but it still isn't what someone who does this as a career does.

And I'm not saying pick "Any" Saddler...make sure you choose one with a good rep and who is highly spoken on. Because there are poor one's as well.

I had a good friend assess my current saddle on Nelson's back, she didn't like the fit, she told me to find another saddle. I hired a Professional who came out, and assessed it and showed me closely as to why it is a good fit - Nelson is "A Symetrical", I cannot go with a saddle that accomodates his withers, because it no longer accomodates his broad back. So I have to go with the Medium/Wide *Even though he is a Narrow/Medium* and I have to use special wedge pads to fill in the pockets. With the Professional there placing the wedge pads in place to ensure that the saddle remains balanced.

If I had to of listened to my friend, I'd of invested in a saddle that would of accomodated his withers, without knowing that it would no longer accomodate his broad back. So I would of ended up causing more problems down the road.

I would never of known this fact, if I did not hire a Professional. There is a lot that I have learnt, by having Professional's help me.

I think hiring a Professional, $75 - $100 is pretty cheap in compareson to all the money you'd be spending on specialty pads to make the saddle fit, chiropractors to fix back pain and more $ put out on saddles that may fit, and end up having to turn around and sell them because you discovered they didn't once you recieved them.

A good Saddler will come out with a truck full of saddles, plus their equipment to help you decide what works best for the both of you *horse and rider*.

I have seen far too many horses with back issues, because the owner assumed the saddle was a good fit, without realizing there was something wrong, somewhere.

Quote:
Second, the horse - listen. When you get on or off, does the horse tense up? When you sit the trot, is the horse relaxed or bothered? Some horses are more pain tolerant than others, but if you have a happy horse, even sweat marks, no dry spots and the curves of the saddle match the curve of your horses back, then for most riders, that is good enough.
I wish many riders did this, I know many who chalk it up to behavioural issues, thinking the horse needs to be disciplined.

I do think that many of us need to learn how to read the sweat marks on the saddle pad. The sweat marks on the saddle pad will tell all, but even I have a hard time deciphering sweat marks on a saddle pad, and I still would rather have a Professional assess it instead of saying "I'm pretty sure". But that's me.

I still agree with JDI -

Quote:
Unless you're trained in saddle fitting, you have an educated guess at best. I highly suggest you have a fitter out to make sure its fitting well... Better safe than sorry!!
I have seen too many times, people buying a saddle because it fits them, and it is a "medium" because their horse is a "medium" - bring it home and find out it doesn't fit, or use it without understanding the importancies of ensuring proper fit.

I see people buying saddles unseen, off of ebay and online without knowing for sure that the saddle is the right fit. Having to sell it and buy another one, and another one and another one - when they could of cut out all that inbetween nonsense, and had a Professional come out, help them and guide them in the direction of the correct saddle.
     

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