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Wintec 500 with cair

This is a discussion on Wintec 500 with cair within the Horse Tack and Equipment forums, part of the Horse Tack category
  • "looking for a saddle fitter" cair
  • Saddle fitters tucson

 
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    01-01-2011, 05:53 PM
  #21
Trained
[quote=JustDressageIt;872001]Bsms, my friend's mare is not a high level performer, nor is she ridden every day - more like a few times a week at best. [QUOTE]

Exaclty, I have friends who are just Pleasure Riders, and they have Professionals come out and help them choose the right saddle for both of them - the horse and themselves.

Quote:
The saddle didn't fit, and it caused deep muscle bruising that took a long time to heal.
Yep, Nelson's previous owner used a saddle that was "wide" and used a wither relief pad, the saddle appeared to be a great fit, but guess what....due to going wide, the saddle compressed on all the important muscles on his topline..causing them to invert, instead of developing properly.

Quote:
The nice thing is that my friend is very in tune with her horse - she noticed the mare acting a tad off before any of us. Listen to your horse, absolutely, but if you are in any way doubting the fit, you should most definitely get an expert out.
Sadly, not everyone is. Sadly, people just keep riding without even realizing or comprehending that something is wrong. They blame the horse, not the tack..because they do not know any better. And not everyone is unsure of the fit.....they just assume "wide" matches their horse who is wide = fit.

Quote:
Gidget sounds unsure of the fit, and everything she's said in this thread leads me to believe that the saddle doesn't fit, but that is my educated guess.

If you don't know, especially for saddle fit which is fundamentally important for your horse's well-being, you should consult a professional.

A saddle is a piece of equipment that has to fit both rider and horse.

Exactly! I have a friend at the barn I board at, who has a saddle that fits her horse very nicely, but her horse continued to end up with lower back pain. The horses lumbar continued to keep coming "out". She ended up getting a Professional Out, who told her - the saddle did not fit her, the rider. It was a 1/2 an inch too small, and the panels were not positioned properly, causing the weight of the rider to compress down on the horses lower back, which is why the horse had lower back pain on a continual basis.

She had no idea, when she was sitting in the saddle, she was able to get 3 fingers behind her, from her butt to the cantle - but the saddle was a poor fit for her, which pushed her back, instead of positioning her centered.

Quote:
Saddle fit is as important in riding as shoe fit is to runners - if you've got an ill fitting shoe, running isn't going to be enjoyable. And it can cause gait, muscle, and structural problems.
Exactly! Well said, and I completely agree. Sadly, not everyone understands "saddle fit".

Now, I see the 1/2 Pad Fad!!! Even if the saddle does "fit" people are throwing on 1/2 pads because they think it adds more comfort to the horse, without knowing that they are causing more issues.....it's just silly.

1/2 Pads are meant to add more horse, to a saddle that is too wide...but then that is only a short term "fix" because overtime, the saddle will compress down on the horses muscles....blah blah blah...sorry, now I am rambling.....
     
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    01-01-2011, 06:44 PM
  #22
Green Broke
Geez guys..enough debate!

Everyone has their own opinions but I still think I will have a saddle fitter out to check it all over. With the wide gullet in now it fits much better in the shoulder area. The channel isn't too wide or narrow from what I can see. The cantle and pommel area are balance equally. I'm not tilted forward nor am I at an angle where I am leaning back. For what I can tell it is a decent fit and my horse will defiently let you know..she does not have a high pain tolerance at all. I am very intuned with my horse and I notice the littlest things.

Again it looks to me that it is a good fit. There is a good amount of clearance but not to where it's sky high on her..I can fit 3 fingers comfortably. Anyways, I do plan to have a saddle fitter to come out. There is one who charges $30 to come out and then $100 to make adjustments.
     
    01-01-2011, 07:00 PM
  #23
Trained
Hmmm...just spent 10 minutes doing an Internet search for saddle fitters in Arizona. There is one listed in Phoenix, and I might find more if I did some searching. But I'm south of Tucson, and I don't know what they would charge to come 150+ miles to see two horses.

The Horse's Pain-Free Back and Saddle-Fit Book

Http://www.amazon.com/Horses-Pain-Free-Back-Saddle-Fit-Book/dp/1570762929/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293921455&sr=8-1
And it's western saddle equivalent

Http://www.amazon.com/Western-Horses-Pain-Free-Back-Saddle-Fit/dp/1570763895/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293921455&sr=8-3
Are available for $20. Reading the English version was a bit frightening - I kind of got the impression I needed to buy a custom built saddle and have it professionally fitted several times a year - but it DOES go thru the basics in enough detail that MOST riders should be able to assess their own horse & saddle.

Happily, both of my horses have nearly identical backs. We went thru 3 western saddles before finding a Circle Y Arabian that fits them about as well as a western saddle can. I own 2 Bates saddles with CAIR, and both fit OK, although the AP version is a bit flatter than I want and may go up for sale. The horses and I both seem to fit better in the jump saddle, although I'm sure I look weird riding it with long stirrups and a navajo blanket underneath. We also have a Down Under Australian saddle. With any of the saddles, I can ride them with a thin cotton pad (with no padding). I figure if my 170 lbs on a saddle without any additional padding doesn't bother them, and with even, balanced sweat marks, then I'm probably OK. The women in my life are a fair bit lighter, so the test is tubby hubby....

I've only been riding 2 years, but our mare is both patient and expressive. She won't buck, but she'll let you know if she isn't happy - and she always has a reason. As a beginning rider, sometimes it is me. Sometimes it is the tack. Sometimes she has a sore. But if she raises her head, swishes her tail and tosses her head a bit, there IS a reason - and it is up to me to figure it out.

Calling out a professional fitter isn't a very realistic option for a lot of us. Listening to our horses, and asking for help when there is a problem, is not an option either - it is a requirement for anyone who wants to ride. I suspect the last sentence, at least, is one we can agree on.
     
    01-01-2011, 07:00 PM
  #24
Green Broke
I will get pictures as well...I just have to find my charger and whatnot...i tend to lose things a lot.
     
    01-01-2011, 07:04 PM
  #25
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
Hmmm...just spent 10 minutes doing an Internet search for saddle fitters in Arizona. There is one listed in Phoenix, and I might find more if I did some searching. But I'm south of Tucson, and I don't know what they would charge to come 150+ miles to see two horses.

The Horse's Pain-Free Back and Saddle-Fit Book

Amazon.com: The Horse's Pain-Free Back and Saddle-Fit Book (9781570762925): Joyce Harman DVM MRCVS: Books

And it's western saddle equivalent

Amazon.com: The Western Horse's Pain-Free Back and Saddle-Fit Book: Soundness and Comfort with Back Analysis and Correct Use of Saddles and Pads (9781570763892): Joyce Harman DVM MRCVS: Books

Are available for $20. Reading the English version was a bit frightening - I kind of got the impression I needed to buy a custom built saddle and have it professionally fitted several times a year - but it DOES go thru the basics in enough detail that MOST riders should be able to assess their own horse & saddle.

Happily, both of my horses have nearly identical backs. We went thru 3 western saddles before finding a Circle Y Arabian that fits them about as well as a western saddle can. I own 2 Bates saddles with CAIR, and both fit OK, although the AP version is a bit flatter than I want and may go up for sale. The horses and I both seem to fit better in the jump saddle, although I'm sure I look weird riding it with long stirrups and a navajo blanket underneath. We also have a Down Under Australian saddle. With any of the saddles, I can ride them with a thin cotton pad (with no padding). I figure if my 170 lbs on a saddle without any additional padding doesn't bother them, and with even, balanced sweat marks, then I'm probably OK. The women in my life are a fair bit lighter, so the test is tubby hubby....

I've only been riding 2 years, but our mare is both patient and expressive. She won't buck, but she'll let you know if she isn't happy - and she always has a reason. As a beginning rider, sometimes it is me. Sometimes it is the tack. Sometimes she has a sore. But if she raises her head, swishes her tail and tosses her head a bit, there IS a reason - and it is up to me to figure it out.

Calling out a professional fitter isn't a very realistic option for a lot of us. Listening to our horses, and asking for help when there is a problem, is not an option either - it is a requirement for anyone who wants to ride. I suspect the last sentence, at least, is one we can agree on.

The first book looks like a good one! Thanks!
     
    01-01-2011, 07:06 PM
  #26
Showing
Debating is very healthy - it allows people to see others' opinions, and become more educated. :)
MIE, I have to say that I *love* the look of half pads, and am currently looking for a thin one to put under the saddle just for look alone. It seems thin half pads are hard to find - Mattes and Christ pads are much, much too thick. Anyways, I'm vain like that. Haha.
     
    01-01-2011, 07:10 PM
  #27
Green Broke
Lol..I like half pads too..cause of the look :P

Anyways,I know debating is healthy but I don't want anyone to get into a fight. I have read every post and I do find it interesting. And once I can find a saddle fitter I will have him or her come out and assess us.
     
    01-01-2011, 07:23 PM
  #28
Trained
They sell thin 1/2 pads, like the Thinline Trifecta, with cotton - and Matte's does as well.

Quote:
With the wide gullet in now it fits much better in the shoulder area. The channel isn't too wide or narrow from what I can see. The cantle and pommel area are balance equally. I'm not tilted forward nor am I at an angle where I am leaning back. For what I can tell it is a decent fit and my horse will defiently let you know..she does not have a high pain tolerance at all. I am very intuned with my horse and I notice the littlest things.

Again it looks to me that it is a good fit. There is a good amount of clearance but not to where it's sky high on her..I can fit 3 fingers comfortably. Anyways, I do plan to have a saddle fitter to come out. There is one who charges $30 to come out and then $100 to make adjustments.
I find the channel width on Wintecs to be very narrow. You should beable to fit 3 fingers, preferably 4 fingers, in the channel, and you can't even get 2 comfortably. I also dislike how gusseted the panels are on the saddle and how they do not lay correctly on the horses back, and I find that they put a lot of pressure on each side of the spinal column.

I also find that the tree's on the 500 line, except for the Wintec 500 CC, are quite strait and bridge on horses backs who have any shape to them *arch*. On my TB, who has an arched back and high withers, the Wintec 500 A/P rested on his shoulders, and on his lower back, but would not make contact in the center of his back.

That is my experience. If your horse has quite a strait back, then you wont have a problem with the Wintec 500 A/P's tree shape.

I hope it works out for you!
     
    01-04-2011, 03:46 AM
  #29
Green Broke
Well still looking for a saddle fitter...talked to my trainer and she said there isn't she has heard of around here and there is this one guy buuut he never gave back this lady's saddle that she had fitted for her paso..
     

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