Abuse or Training?

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Abuse or Training?

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    12-17-2011, 07:05 PM
Abuse or Training?

So I had a previous trainer that I took lessons from for about a year and I loved her. She was the sweetest person ever and she was an awesome trainer. Recently though I have realized that some of her methods are a little tough. I have seen her standing on the ground and kicking her horse in the side multiple times ( I have also seen her do it to my horse ) I didn't know what to do at the time because I trusted her and figured it was proper training (I was only 14). She has also stabbed my horse in the butt with a hoof pick when he wouldn't move his butt over. The look in his eyes made me realize that what she was doing was wrong. I have decided to move my horse to a different barn next month because of this. I also recently watched the documentary Buck and realized that there is a much more peaceful way of training. So I was wondering how many people agree with the more forceful way, and how many people do it the way Buck does it. I am not wanting to judge or start arguments, I just want to be able to hear other peoples point of views.
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    12-17-2011, 07:15 PM
IMO there really should be no reason for her to stand there and kick her horse and most definitely your horse in the side OR stab your horse in the butt with a hoof pick! IMO that is abuse and I sure as heck wouldn't wait till next month to be moving my horse..Watch your horse like a hawk when she is around him and please do not hesitate to tell her to stop!
    12-17-2011, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by cowgirlup24    
IMO there really should be no reason for her to stand there and kick her horse and most definitely your horse in the side OR stab your horse in the butt with a hoof pick! IMO that is abuse and I sure as heck wouldn't wait till next month to be moving my horse..Watch your horse like a hawk when she is around him and please do not hesitate to tell her to stop!
Believe me I wanted to move sooner but her boarding contract says we have to give a 30 days notice, and the barn we are moving him to won't be ready till then anyways.
    12-17-2011, 07:26 PM
Stabbed your horse with a hoof pick? 0_0. That in my opinion is over harsh and very abusive. As well as kicking your horse on the ground...umm why? I would have been out of there as soon as possible, that's over abusive and incredibly cruel.
KaylaMarie96 likes this.
    12-17-2011, 07:31 PM
Why did she kick your horse, and under what circumstances? And how hard was the brutal hoofpick stabbing?
Wallaby, Sharpie and kevinshorses like this.
    12-17-2011, 07:35 PM
I would need to have actually seen the incidents to call abuse here, I often have used a hoof pick to reinforce the 'push' to get a butt off of me, there is a world of difference between a poke and a stab, but different people will call the same thing by different descriptions.

If A horse is threatening to squash me, showing huge disrespect by getting in my space then bet your booty they will get a poke with a pick or whatever.

Kicking, why, how when what for??
Wallaby, Kayty and mistyorbit like this.
    12-17-2011, 07:41 PM
Green Broke
Unless you can clarify the force of what was done, no help can be given.

Sure, its not an up to date method, and I wouldn't be impressed with anyone booting my horse. I wouldn't call it abuse, nor would I call it training.

Abuse? No- the size of a human in comparison to a horse, and the speed in which they kick out, and kick each other is NOTHING. You'd have to get a very well aimed kick to get any tender spots. I saw my YO kick his stallion's 5th leg. Not hard, but to get him to put it away- disrespect.
Hoofpick.. you say stab, did it draw any blood? If so- that is abuse.

Although it is an unsavoury method of punishment, I wouldn't call it abuse. Before running to a new yard have you thought about talking to this trainer to prevent this happening to your horse and the reasoning WHY she did it?
    12-17-2011, 07:42 PM
That doesnt truely sound like abuse to me. Abuse in its true form is usually something that is obvious to everyone. Even a child would see something needs to be done. I myself will kick my horses in the pasture. I act like a mare. If theyre crowding my colt and tring to take his food ill shake my head and snort and strike out on them in the shoulders and stomaches if I can reach. A horse is much stronger than a human. A kick that could put me in the hospital by another horse would be be a strong reprimand for my horses. Theyre touch and unless its in the very soft part of the belly with a steel toed boot and a sledge hammer I doubt itll be hard enough to hurt the horse. For the hoofpick, if she didnt break the skin then no I don't think id consider it abuse either. Horses have tough skin and it can be dangerous if one doesnt respect you enough to move your butt over. Im pretty sure another horse could kick him harder than she could stab him with a hoofpick, UNLESS it was into the skin with the metal end. And I doubt youd be asking if it were abuse if she did that. Youd know.
    12-17-2011, 07:42 PM
Maybe its about perspective, when she "stabbed" the horse in the butt how far did the hoof pick sink into the flesh - 1 inch? 2 inches? Or did it not actually break the skin at all? Did the resulting wound require treatment, stitches perhaps?

As for kicking the horse in the side, did the trainer break her toes on the horses ribs or was she wearing steel caps? You got to be real careful when making accusations about abuse. My horse is an incredible food hog, she is a big strong girl and when I am on the ground once she gets her head down to eat I can't budge her. I started growling at her, tugging on the reins or lead line which she ignores. I then started stamping the ground beside her mouth which worked once. Then I started prodding her in the chops with my toe which also worked briefly before she decided to ignore that too. Now as soon as her head goes down to eat I give her a good kick in the gob -it hurts my toes in my soft riding boots. No doubt if you saw me kick my horse in the mouth you would call me abusive. I however think its preferable, rather than standing like a dumb ass holding a lawn mower.

It's all about perspective, if you don't understand why something is happening then at least have the courtesy to ask the trainer why she does what she does before labeling her as abusive.
Alwaysbehind and kevinshorses like this.
    12-17-2011, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by bubba13    
Why did she kick your horse, and under what circumstances? And how hard was the brutal hoofpick stabbing?
She kicked him because he was walking off when she was trying to get on him. It made no sense to me why kicking him would make that better. And it wasn't hard enough to break skin but she had him in the cross ties (which he wasn't used to at the time so he was scared) and was pushing hard enough to wear I thought I was going to see blood. It was uncalled for and extreme. He was obviously scared and stressed out.

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