Any one out there?
   

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Any one out there?

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        03-17-2010, 09:46 PM
      #1
    Foal
    Exclamation Any one out there?

    After reading another post on here about this, I felt like I need to to see if any one held my point of view.

    Ok so the thing is that what ever we do we cannot put our horses threw the abuse that they are put threw when they are sent to slaughter houses. We got them in this situation and its responsibility as being the "more evolved" to get them out of it. I believe that people should open there hearts and take in one horse that needs help, or donate to help those that have the time and space. Again its our responsibility! Not all of the horses are in unfit condition. Most of these horses are young, in good health, sound, and yes many are pregnant! I think that yes it is a problem and it needs to be taken care of but not in horse slaughter plants, where the workers could be compared to the Nazi in WWII. When we are done with them, and they no longer stand up to our standards, we ship them off to be processed to we can wipe our hands clean, and say that it was a quick and painless death. The reality is far from that.

    Did you know that in many places they use knives to sever the spinal cord by plunging it into their neck repeatedly until they are paralyzed and even then they can still feel when they are hung up side down and then bleed out. And in others they use a captive bolt gun, which sounds like a better way but its not. This is use on cows and other livestock, where the brains are place more forward in the skull. Where the horses brains are set back, so that the bolt don't go far enough in. And when cows are slaughtered this way their heads are held in place, while horses are not. So they can move their head around avoiding the gun and can be hit with the bolt several times before actually being knocked unconscious. And did you know that once a horse is hit with one they are supposed to be bleed out immediately because they can regain conscious in 30 seconds. Does this sound like the right way to deal with this?
         
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        03-17-2010, 10:33 PM
      #2
    Green Broke
    You do realize that the pigs, cattle and other animals who are butchered every day are animals who are young, fit and healthy, don't you? The point is not that only sick and old animals ought to go to slaughter, in fact quite the opposite - it is that there are so many horses, most of whom fall into the young/healthy but simply not able to be supported in the current population category.
    As was asked in the other thread, what is the solution you would propose? It is easy to dismiss solutions you don't agree with, but it doesn't mean much until/unless you can propose a solution of your own that can take the place of the one you dismiss.
         
        03-18-2010, 12:15 AM
      #3
    Foal
    Adopt out, find a place for them to go. If some one wants it badly enough then it will happen. If you can't take care of your horse then put him down humanely, call your vet... but don't send him to a place where they don't care if he is in pain or not, no matter for how long. And honestly if your going to take that view how much longer until we decide to slaughter our dags and send them to asia for consumption?
         
        03-18-2010, 12:28 AM
      #4
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hrsecrzie    
    I think that yes it is a problem and it needs to be taken care of but not in horse slaughter plants, where the workers could be compared to the Nazi in WWII.
    Keep in mind, that regardless of the validity or invalidity of your position, as soon as you bring Nazis or Hitler into the argument, you've lost it.
         
        03-18-2010, 12:42 AM
      #5
    Trained
    This post is entirely meaningless and irreleveant to me because:

    1) You have spoken from an entirely emotional POV.
    2) You have not offered any viable solutions or alternatives to slaughter.
    3) You have used a LOT of misinformation, incorrect statements, and propaganda.

    Come back when you can lay out your case unemotionaly, logically, factually, and present viable and workable solutions or alternatives, and people might listen.
         
        03-18-2010, 12:51 AM
      #6
    Trained
    And yet i'm sucked in... lol!

    Quote:
    Adopt out, find a place for them to go. If some one wants it badly enough then it will happen. If you can't take care of your horse then put him down humanely, call your vet... but don't send him to a place where they don't care if he is in pain or not, no matter for how long. And honestly if your going to take that view how much longer until we decide to slaughter our dags and send them to asia for consumption?


    "If someone wants it badly enough it will happen" - Rubbish. There are thousands of people who want neglect and abuse to stop, but it sure hasn't happened yet!

    There are hundreds of rescues out there trying to find homes for slaughter bound horses. They struggle, for funds and for available homes. Many of the horses bound for slaughter have issues – behavioural, mental, medical. Many require a lot of time, expertise, and money to bring back to ‘normal’. Your country is in a bad way economically, people are losing jobs. How do you propose to persuade people to take on a horse with any of the above issues, pay for all their needs, when they can’t even pay for their own necessities? How do you plan to do a better job at finding homes than the reputable rescues out there? How do you plan to place the numerous old, sick, injured, mentally broken down horses who need experienced homes and care but can’t be ridden, or sometimes even handled, safely? Where are the homes for these horses?

    How are you going to convince a family who’s breadwinner has just lost their job to PAY to have their horse euthanized – PAY to have it taken away – PAY someone to bury it on their land or in a tip; As opposed to taking it to the auction and GETTING PAID to send it to slaughter?
         
        03-18-2010, 01:05 AM
      #7
    Trained
    Quote:
    did you know that in many places they use knives to sever the spinal cord by plunging it into their neck repeatedly until they are paralyzed and even then they can still feel when they are hung up side down and then bleed out. And in others they use a captive bolt gun, which sounds like a better way but its not. This is use on cows and other livestock, where the brains are place more forward in the skull. Where the horses brains are set back, so that the bolt don't go far enough in. And when cows are slaughtered this way their heads are held in place, while horses are not. So they can move their head around avoiding the gun and can be hit with the bolt several times before actually being knocked unconscious. And did you know that once a horse is hit with one they are supposed to be bleed out immediately because they can regain conscious in 30 seconds. Does this sound like the right way to deal with this?
    You have been watching WAY too much PETA propaganda.

    Stabbing, etc. happens in the unregulated plants that exist outside of the US - Where the horses are now going because of the closure of the US plants.

    If plants are re-opened in the US, they will be heavily regulated, and things like that won't happen without heavy penalties to the offender.

    Captive Bolt:

    Quote:
    Commonly used for cattle and other livestock. The bolt is fired through the forehead causing massive disruption of the cerebral cortex. In cattle this merely stuns the animal, and death must be brought about by pithing or exsanguination. Horses are killed outright by the captive bolt, making pithing or exsanguination unnecessary.
    Quote:
    When properly used, the penetrating captive bolt gun produces immediate brain tissue destruction that kills the animal. Captive bolts are powered by gunpowder, thus the selection of the cartridge strength should be appropriate for the size of the animal (adult vs. foal) and this varies among manufacturers. The penetrating captive bolt gun should be placed very firmly against the skull at the same location (see diagram, right) previously described for gunshot. Horses must be adequately restrained to e nsure proper placement of the captive bolt.

    Quote:
    "I would equate captive bolt with gunshot and consider both as humanely superior to lethal injection when performed properly. The public's perception of lethal injection as being the only humane procedure parlays to the standards of the veterinary profession in this country--we simply do not teach instanteous lethal trauma. "I do not randomly shoot my patients, but select gunshot for those where lethal injection is cardiovascularly inappropriate as a means of euthanasia or when horses and handlers are placed at risk by the less efficacious lethal injection."--Doug Byars, DVM, Dipl. ACVIM, Dipl. ACVECC

    Quote:
    "Captive bolt in the hands of an experienced person is completely humane because the horse is immediately rendered unconscious. It has the same effect as a gunshot when placed properly. I believe that it is more humane than chemical injection for two reasons. If you watch horses that are euthanized with an injection, many of them experience a period of bewilderment or confusion just before they lose conscienceness. There is no doubt that they are aware that something strange is occurring. Second, many of the horses following chemical injection do not die quickly and require a second or third dose. With gunshot or captive bolt, the horses is rendered unconscious immediately.
    "I have visited one of the slaughter plants in Texas and stood next to the person using the captive bolt to euthanize the horses. The horses walked into the stun box without fear or nervousness. The captive bolt was trigger activated and the horses were euthanized immediately. I'm not sure where people get the notion that the horses are repeatedly bludgeoned. USDA veterinarians are in the slaughter plants to ensure that the horses are handled and euthanized properly. I examined a number of skulls with them and found that the placement of the captive bolt strike was exactly in the right place every time. "The AVMA panel on euthanasia examined all of the humane alternatives for euthanizing horses before publishing their recommendations. AAEP (American Association of Equine Practitioners) has reviewed their guidelines and agree with them completely."--Tom Lenz, DVM, MS, Dipl. ACT H
    Quote:


    "Since we arrived before the plants started processing, we were aware of the entire routine, including the use of the captive bolt. I must admit to being overwhelmed at the accuracy of the operators. They never failed to connect with the correct site, and the horses dropped instantly, with no complications. If you inspected the heads later, the lesions were in precisely the same spots.
    "I practiced veterinary medicine from 1956 until recently, and I administered lethal doses of barbiturates for euthanasia countless times. This technique is much slower than captive bolt euthanasia, and frequently required additional injections.
    "I had clients who would prefer a quicker method. On several occasions I used a pistol to euthanize horses. Aside from the danger of gunshot to bystanders (or administrators), the results are infinitely better with the pistol than with barbiturates. "Also, I don't buy the 'fear and apprehension' problems that the activists claim. There is no wild-eyed anticipation or screaming when the environment is managed correctly."--Woody Asbury, DVM, Dipl. ACVIM.
         

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