Blehh.. This kind of upset me - Flash nosebands... - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 35 Old 06-07-2009, 11:30 PM
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I was advised when I first started riding that using a flash or figure 8, was for keeping the mouth closed, but years later when I started dressage, it was explained as an aid to help position the bit in the horse's mouth correctly, and stabilize it. The horse should still be able to chew the bit, and move it around to a degree.
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post #22 of 35 Old 06-08-2009, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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dressagebelle - That is what I was always told the Flash was used for. Hence this thread. I'm still not so sure about using it to keep a horse from chewing?

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post #23 of 35 Old 06-08-2009, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutty Saddler View Post
The Drop noseband .
There are a number of patterns of drop noseband . All of them succeed in closing the mouth ( opening of the mouth or crossing of the jaws , thereby sliding the bit through the mouth and so avoiding the correct action , being common evasions ) . Even more important is the fact that the drop noseband , used in conjuction with a snaffle , alters the whole conception of the snaffle bit. The noseband imposes pressure on the nose , following pressure on the bit through the reins, and the resultant position of the head (i.e. lowered because of the nose pressure ) allows the bit to bear more directly across the lower jaw, exerting a downward and inward force as opposed to the normal upward pull when the bit is acting purely on the corners of the mouth. Briefly , therefore , it is possible to produce very adequate flexion of the lower jaw and the poll, not normally possible with the snaffle alone.
Well I can tell you that doesn't work at all on Icelandics. They are ridden in ridiculously tight drop nosebands and more than one person has commented that they all seem to be stiff at the poll with no arch in their necks. I have seen them flex properly like a dressage horse but only in a curb bit.
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post #24 of 35 Old 06-09-2009, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MIEventer View Post
Love that article! Very informative! To the poster who mentioned that Kineton's are harsh, read the info about them in the above article, it's very interesting.

I use a flash to keep the bit still in my horse's mouth and to discourage him from opening his mouth excessively, that said, it is loose enough that he can still manage to grab a mouthful of grass as we go by :roll:
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post #25 of 35 Old 06-09-2009, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MIEventer View Post
Flashes don't teach a horse to not evade the bit. Proper riding, training does - aka the training scale.

Read Jim Woffords article.
no one's saying its the ultimate fix. we're saying that its a good training aid for a horse who likes to mess with the bit and open their mouth
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post #26 of 35 Old 06-09-2009, 11:50 PM
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If your horse is opening his mouth to evade the bit, then there is a hole missing in the training scale and no flash, will either correct that - or was even created to prevent it.

Again, read Jim Woffords article
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post #27 of 35 Old 06-10-2009, 01:00 AM
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Redhawk

The one thing I can say for sure , 100% accurate , is that in 17 years of making saddlery I have only ever made 1 kineton.
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post #28 of 35 Old 06-10-2009, 02:26 AM
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What an interesting thread.
My gelding is in a grackle noseband - he crosses at the jaw and evades the bit that way. Since being in this noseband (with room to fit a finger in easily when done up correctly) I have found the problem we were having has definitely decreased. He is still able to chew, I believe all horses should be able to freely lick and chew under saddle - it's a sign of being content and acceptance with what they're doing. Besides, if Evo's bit stops squeaking, then you know something's up! Haha!
I've seen tight nosebands with bulges on either side of the leather and felt sick at the image. I believe any horse equipment in the wrong hands can be used incorrectly and hurt horses. I know some people believe if you can't ride in a simple cavesson noseband, then you need to train yourself more and its a problem you must solve, not put on a flash etc. As much as I'm the first to admit, I need to get better at my own riding, I know that having Evo in a grackle isn't the end of the world. It serves a purpose, he is happy in his work ethic, and if the gear is used correctly with the intent of removing with time, I can't see why not. I'd like to get him back down to a flash, but for now, he's in a grackle, and I'm not going to feel guilty by those who try to force the "cavesson way only" down my throat. Not meaning anyone on here is though!
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post #29 of 35 Old 06-10-2009, 02:48 AM
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To Ohmyitschelle

If it aint broke don't try to fix it

I used to ride a bsja showjumper in a kimblewick and a grackle , it was the combination that he liked and was what worked for him.
Any correct piece of saddlery used badle is the wrong piece of saddlery , and by the sounds of it you aren't using it wrong. For those who try to dictate the cavesson only I would say - why have a noseband at all.
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post #30 of 35 Old 06-11-2009, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutty Saddler View Post
Redhawk

The one thing I can say for sure , 100% accurate , is that in 17 years of making saddlery I have only ever made 1 kineton.
Do you think that this is because they are harsh or just unheard of? I haven't used them, and hadn't heard about them until I read about them on the website MIEventer posted - Sustainable Dressage.
The writer stated that they had a reputation for being harsh, and maybe they are, but if that's so wouldn't a hackamore, esp. the ones with thin nosebands, be a lot harsher, since all of the pressure is being put on the nose? My thinking was that a Kineton would be somewhat kinder, in that it dispributed the pressure between the nose and the mouth.
Not trying to be argumentative here, just want your opinion. They are a noseband that intrigue me.
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