Canceled Registration Papers - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 37 Old 12-31-2012, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
If a horse is substandard for the use that it was bred for, a breeder might want to prevent future breeding to protect the reputation of the sire and dam of that horse.

Say you have a champion show horse. You breed him. All of his foals turn out to be show champions but one. That one is a dud. If it is going to shows and the owners are bragging that its sire is the formerly mentioned champion show horse, then other people might not want to breed to him.

You can't ride papers anyway. I wouldn't be that worried about it if it is just a horse that you want to ride and enjoy.
If all the foals came out to be show champions but one, I would be questioning the conformation of the dam.

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post #22 of 37 Old 12-31-2012, 10:15 PM
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If all the foals came out to be show champions but one, I would be questioning the conformation of the dam.
Right. Or environmental problems. Or just a bad genetic match. Stallion owners need for their horse's offspring to be top quality. It is much nicer to sell the horse without papers than it is to kill it.

Lots of dog breeders will sell substandard pups as pets without papers or spay or neuter them.
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post #23 of 37 Old 12-31-2012, 10:26 PM
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Right. Or environmental problems. Or just a bad genetic match. Stallion owners need for their horse's offspring to be top quality. It is much nicer to sell the horse without papers than it is to kill it.

Lots of dog breeders will sell substandard pups as pets without papers or spay or neuter them.
I get what you're saying - one reason why I won't breed to conformationally flawed mares - it will always come back to the stallion.

However, I believe that there is no real reason to sell a horse without it's heritage. It can tell you so much about them (history, talent, prospects, genetic diseases, etc) and really gives the horse a better chance at finding a home then a grade one, especially ones dumped at auction.

With the amount of pedigreed, shown horses being given away, I doubt the odds of it being any nicer of holding papers back. Seems like a spiteful move because they had to let them go, you ask me.
I will never sell, or give away, a horse of mine that I bred or owned without it's rightful heritage.
But, that's just me.

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post #24 of 37 Old 01-01-2013, 09:23 AM
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I won't breed to conformationally flawed mares - it will always come back to the stallion.

However, I believe that there is no real reason to sell a horse without it's heritage. It can tell you so much about them (history, talent, prospects, genetic diseases, etc) and really gives the horse a better chance at finding a home then a grade one, especially ones dumped at auction.
I actually totally agree. I is just what I think is the motivation behind these people. You are right. Breed only to quality mares and you stallion's reputation will be sound. It really is a matter of whether a breeder is breeding for money or for the "art".

Poor breeders remind me of modern pop singers -> money now, forgotten tomorrow.


Quality breeders are more like Mozart -> broke now, remembered tomorrow.
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post #25 of 37 Old 01-01-2013, 10:26 AM
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I like the point of view which says the papers (hence record of heritage) belong to the animal. No papers certainly does not mean people won't breed: look at all the animals in rescue now... papered, unpapered...
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post #26 of 37 Old 01-01-2013, 12:00 PM
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seems like corrupt BS from the breed registry of you ask me. A horses pedigree is its pedigree, good or bad, SO the breed registry can be an accomplice in covering up for a bad stallion ? Horse C was born to horse A and B, simple as that. Good or bad noone should have the right to hide that. I could understand a breed registry flagging a horse No breeding. But not an owner. If I start a registry with the purpose of creating and improving purpleloosas, and one stallion produces a lavenderloosa, I can see marking that lavernderloosa as non breedable as it wont carry on the breed I want. But it doesnt change it's sire and dam.
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post #27 of 37 Old 01-01-2013, 12:40 PM
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seems like corrupt BS from the breed registry of you ask me. A horses pedigree is its pedigree, good or bad, SO the breed registry can be an accomplice in covering up for a bad stallion ? Horse C was born to horse A and B, simple as that. Good or bad noone should have the right to hide that. I could understand a breed registry flagging a horse No breeding. But not an owner. If I start a registry with the purpose of creating and improving purpleloosas, and one stallion produces a lavenderloosa, I can see marking that lavernderloosa as non breedable as it wont carry on the breed I want. But it doesnt change it's sire and dam.
The horse's pedigree isn't removed from the breed's database though, and will probably be in the information that they are sending. However, de-registering should always be available to breeders that wish to. It should go hand-in-hand with further encouragement to not breed unregistered stock. If a responsible breeder de-registers a horse because it is not of breeding or show quality, and a responsible owner buys it and decides not to breed it for the sake of using all its organs, then the horse world would be much better off.

What the registry could do is find a happy medium. In the cat world, it is very common for breeding stock to be registered in one book, and non-breeders in another. They are still registered, but need to be sterilised to show over 6 months old, and no offspring can be registered from them.
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Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
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post #28 of 37 Old 01-01-2013, 02:28 PM
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A registry is either to keep track of bloodlines or it's for breeding purposes. If it's for keeping track of bloodlines then registry should not be pulled, ever as bloodlines don't suddenly up and change. If it's for breeding purposes than a horse should never be registered until the organizing body physically inspects the horse to ensure good conformation, after passing said inspection registration can be made.

Now I know those in charge of registration make the rules, but rules like having the ability to yank a registration are BS.
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post #29 of 37 Old 01-01-2013, 03:00 PM
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Well, I own the papers on my Registered horses. I have an Arab mare SE. She was saved from being a baby maker. She is stupid and ugly. I have the papers. if this mare ever left my place, her papers would be mailed to AHA and told to be destroyed. I have two quarter horses , full bros and sister. the gelding has a deformed hind leg. Wierd genetic thing. None of the other siblings , from the same sire and dam has ever had this problem. Genetics are very complicated, the stallion was a red dun, dam grey roan, our mare is bay the gelding grey/roan. The other foals from the same mare and stallion were greys roans duns bays and red. Go figure. Some were taller some were shorter. Some you could not tell were full blooded siblings. You would have thought they were total diff lineage.
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post #30 of 37 Old 01-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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so stevensen because it doenst meet YOUR opinion of good pretty show pony its papers should be destroyed ? The fact you can do that is malarky. What if I buy that horse, train it and win Tevis ? Something an arabian was actually meant to do ? In your mind she is still worthless ?
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