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A Crisis of Conscience

3K views 24 replies 19 participants last post by  ShirtHotTeez 
#1 ·
I started riding this past July, and those seven months have been some of the best in my life. I have already begun jumping, and I have bonds with several horses at our barn, one in particular being Calypso. I don't know his full story, but I do know he was abused before I ever met him. He has since returned to our barn and refused several riders, including trainers.

My trainer said "why not" with me and sent me over to him and the only trainer that can ride him (due to the fact she leased him as a child). I have had two lessons on him, but clearly we work; not only did he let me mount, he didn't spook or run the second lesson when I could only get onto one side of him. He has been dubbed 'my horse' and I really do love him.

Recently a fellow vegetarian friend sent me a video questioning whether or not equestrianism is cruel to horses. The girl obviously showed gruesome pictures of people using extreme girths and horrific saddle burn from neglect to use pads or blankets. But she also hit some resounding points. Her research was thorough and checked out; she talked about how a horse is not fully developed until the age of 5 or older in some cases. She also delved into how weight on the horse's spine does cause damage, quoting a non-riding trainer in saying that the horse's spine is for nervous connection through the body, not a seat.

Immediately I thought of Calypso; was my riding him just as bad as what had scarred him at his previous barn? Am I participating in a sport for my own leisure without regard of my animals? I do truly love this sport and I am 1000% on board with my barn's above average treatment of its animals and its safe practices, but in the end, am I still hurting Calypso and my other rides?
 
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#2 ·
Let me ask you. What will become of all the horses if we weren't to ride or work them? Who will care for so many large, voracious beasts were they not put to some purpose useful to humans?

I prefer to use logic in an argument, but take a listen to this song. Hopefully, you can understand it through the brogue. I can't hear it, much less sing it without tears. For I know that the replacement of draft animals with motor vehicles coincided with the rise of the pet food industry. That was no coincidence. Suddenly, there was a vast supply of cheap meat to be made into dog food.

"Steady boys, walk on.
Your work is nearly done.
No more you'll till, nor plow the fields,
The horses day is done.
And this will be your last walk home.
So, steady boys, walk on."

last trip home battlefield band - Bing video
 
#3 ·
I'm a crusty old codger, but the last verse always leaves me blubbering like a baby.

As we head back, oor friends have lined
The road tae be there one last time
For nane of them would want tae miss
The chance tae see us pass like this
They'll say they saw in years tae come
The muckle horses' last trip home

If you're looking for me tomorrow, I'll be riding. I need the smell of horse sweat and leather, and the feel of a strong, willing horse beneath me to shake this funk.
 
#4 ·
I look at my horses as my best friends. Sure, they carry me around a few times a week, if that. And I spend all my extra money on their care, and all my extra time taking care of them.

I don't think that's a bad trade off. A few hours a week "work" for constant care and attention, at least twice a day, plus every food and medical need met. That's a better deal than most people get! Could they have a better life? Perhaps. I wish I had pasture, for instance. But if I didn't love them and keep them, would they have a better home somewhere else? It's unlikely.

I really enjoy spending my spare time with them, and I hope the feeling is mutual. I don't ride my horses into the ground, I go through great lengths to find the right bit, the right saddle, the right pad. I guess I kind of hope they enjoy spending time with me almost as much as I enjoy spending time with them!

So yeah, life is full of gray areas. But as long as you put the horse's needs first, I don't see the harm in it. To me, they are companion animals like dogs and cats. Another person might take their dog for a walk, I take my horse for a ride. :)
 
#5 ·
Is the friend who showed you this video one who doesn't believe any animals should be living with/use by people? If so, nothing you say is going to change her extreme opinion.

In terms of your own worry, try to look at the situation from a non-emotional place. You said you feel the horses get above-average care. You know the tack isn't causing sores, etc. You have even seen that a horse doesn't HAVE to agree to be ridden and can and will take actions to remove a rider if it chooses. Would your horse not react in some way if what you were doing was doing him damage?

While it may not be 'natural' for horses to carry riders, that doesn't mean they can't do so safely and without physical issue.
 
#13 ·
While it may not be 'natural' for horses to carry riders, that doesn't mean they can't do so safely and without physical issue.
Well, it's not 'natural' for people to make videos about riding horses, or to discuss them on internet forums, either :)

What the OP needs to realize is that this sort of thing is a religion. I don't know of any religion that's purely rational, or that doesn't have adherents who will lie their heads off to gain converts. And that's exactly what these people are doing: lying. They claim that because some people who ride horses are cruel to them, all riders must be cruel. Which makes as much sense as saying all parents are child abusers.
 
#6 ·
Yes! Lets let all of the horses run free so they can be hit by automobiles, starve to death due to parasites and lack of food. They can all die painful deaths of sepsis, lock jaw, encephalitis and a variety of different diseases all free of human intervention. They can be eaten alive by bears and wolves and mountain lions....

Or they can be healthy, well fed, safe, comfortable, shown a kind and gentle hand that mends their wounds if they get them, provides them shelter from the elements and as much water as they care to drink and, a couple of times a week, they ride with me. Not all domesticated horses have it so bad. Very few "naturalized" horses have it so good.
 
#7 ·
to add to what everyone else has said, some horses enjoy being with and working with (including being ridden by) their humans. like my mare...she loves hanging out in the pasture with her buddies, but you get that saddle on her, and climb up, and her ears are up, shes looking for the next challenge, looking for the next job, be it a cow that needs pushed, a jump that needs going over, or just running down the trail...she enjoys her work.

another thing to think about....if people stopped riding horses, right now, today..how many of them would be kept alive? horse slaughter would go up and up, horses would become purely for meat, which your vegi friend would be against as well.

the other thing is, many people who think like your friend think that horses should be free...not kept as pets like dogs or cats...but here in the US, there are so many "wild" horses grazing on such limited land that they're starving to death. much better to be fat and happy, and be ridden every so often, than starving and sick in the "wild".

you know, you see that the horses your riding are well cared for. they'll probably live the rest of their lives not seeing the inside of a slaughter house. if they show symptoms of pain, their owners would get them help. they eat all they need, and never go hungry. they are loved, even by you.

honestly, dont let your friend get into your head. she has her opinions...but thats all they are...OPINIONS. your free to have your own. if the horses are well cared for, and happy to work for you....then dont worry about someone elses extreme views.
 
#8 ·
What would I do if I were you? I'd make a promise to that horse- and every horse you ride- to always respect him/her first and foremost and vow to make the horse as comfortable as possible. When done correctly, I do not feel riding a horse is inhumane. All those examples the other girl said are what happens when people don't respect and care for the horse. And I kind of get the feeling- even though I don't know you- that you have compassion for the horses you ride; meaning you care, and therefore would do everything in your control to make sure you are not hurting the horse, making you one of the riders who respect the horse.
 
#10 ·
You have two types of animals in this world:

1) Companion Animals: domesticated and bred for thousands of years to solely be man's companion and do 'little odd jobs' (like a cat catching mice around the house).

2) Work Animals: domesticated and bred for thousands of years to solely do a job and do that job well.

Horses fall in category 2. The only reasons horses were ever brought into man's life was for food, transportation and making our jobs of building cities and travel easier.

When I ride my horses I ride them for 6+ hours in a day. I check and fix fences on them, I train other horses while on them (like ponying and giving lessons to riders), I use them instead of my car to go to the gas station or grocery store.

I've yet to have a horse come up lame or sore or injured from being worked. My boss has a couple that are in their 30's and even though their workload has decreased they are still ridden regularly and are still healthy as can be.

All this being said because I depend and demand my horses do this amount of work, I have an enormous amount of respect and care for them. They are on a good diet, with fitting equipment and I took the time to learn how to ride properly so I wouldn't be bouncing around and banging on their mouth.

And THAT'S what makes a horse comfortable. Work is good for a horse, any old farm vet will tell you that. The longer a horse has a JOB and is active the healthier it is (assuming that individual's healthy and fit).

So don't let your friend get to you. Horses have been carting man around since the beginning of times and I guarantee they'll still be carting man around happily for a few more eons. It's not bad or inhumane for ANY animal to have a job. My horses may work 6+ hours a day but they each have a job they love and they're given 'vacation' when they need it.

I promise by riding a horse that's healthy and in fitting tack you won't hurt them. ;-)
 
#11 ·
Quite often a difficult horse will accept a quiet rider rather than one that is going to ask a lot.

As a child there was a TB at the riding school, a big horse that had raced but was terribly nervous and anxious. His owner was trying to clip him and was having no chance of getting anywhere near his head.
She went off to give them both a break. Whilst she was gone I went into his stable and fussed him. I picked up the clippers and rubbed them all over his neck and head and after several minutes did the same with them running.

When the owner returned she told me to see if I could clip him - I could as long as she wasn't there, he even let me do his ears and had his head down to the ground.

I was about ten when this happened and as a reward I was allowed to have a sit on him - providing I could get on him on my own!

I couldn't reach the stirrup from the mounting block and if I lowered the stirrup I couldn't get my leg across the saddle so I took him to the arena stood him alongside the arena rails and clambered on him from them.

I was allowed to walk him and then told to trot, I gave him a kick and he went into a canter so I hauled him to a trot. He did nothing nasty, suffered me as if he was one of the school ponies.
 
#12 ·
I think it's a lot like people. We weren't made to a lot of the jobs that we do, but plenty of people are happy doing them.

If you can find the right horse for the right job I don't see why it should case them any kind of pain, and plenty seem happy and even eager for the work.
 
#14 ·
You can't reason with or rationalize with vegans. Believe me, I have a couple in my family and we intentionally stay away from the topic, otherwise our normally mild mannered family would end up breaking heads.

You should ask yourself if a real friend would subject you to the extreme abuse videos (and her implied accusations against you) when she knows you love horses and would never intentionally harm one. Is this what a friend does? I say no, sometimes you just have to dump negative people right out of your life.
 
#16 ·
You can't reason with or rationalize with vegans. Believe me, I have a couple in my family and we intentionally stay away from the topic, otherwise our normally mild mannered family would end up breaking heads.

You should ask yourself if a real friend would subject you to the extreme abuse videos (and her implied accusations against you) when she knows you love horses and would never intentionally harm one. Is this what a friend does? I say no, sometimes you just have to dump negative people right out of your life.
Please be careful not to paint an entire group of people with the same broad brush. The vegans I know are conscientious folks who respect the choices of other folks.

I have had respectful conversations with many of them (complete strangers) while I was engaged in butchering demonstrations at public events. The worst that has happened with family members who are vegan is other family members worrying about what to feed them.

In fact the confrontations I have seen were initiated by belligerent non-vegans.
 
#15 ·
What would be a more "natural" life for humans? Living in a cave, with loincloths made of animal skin (or plant material, I guess, for the vegans), hunting (oh no!) and gathering for subsistence? Would you be happier with that life, or one where you have a job you may not LOVE but isn't abusive, and a few hobbies you enjoy, friends and loved ones to spend time with, etc. Of course keeping a horse in a pen and putting natural and synthetic materials on various parts of its body then climbing aboard isn't "natural," but then neither is getting dressed in synthetic fibers in your house made of materials not always found in nature, with a HVAC system, and electronics to cook your food and entertain you. I bet if horses were rational beings capable of such thought processes, and you showed them the life of a wild horse and the life most domesticated horses have, they'd choose the latter. Guaranteed food, vet care, and relative comfort 24/7, for the hassle of wearing a saddle and bridle and rider a few hours a week.
 
#17 ·
I am vegan. I have made a choice to contribute to as little suffering in this world as possible. Mostly that applies to my diet, lifestyle and clothing choices.

However, I have a horse. I ride him, striving to be as good a rider as possible, to benefit him, not harm. Often, I don't ride - you don't have to, there's a myriad of wonderful things you can do with horses out of the saddle. :) If not for me, he'd be a lesson horse now in a nasty facility, ridden into the ground and unloved.

I also have cats. They are carnivores, so are fed an appropriate diet of raw meat and other animal parts. I cannot deny them what they are, just because I've chosen not to share their carnivorous ways. :D

You don't have to fall into extremes. Do what your heart tells you is right. Educate yourself, be kind, be compassionate, be observant. The horse will tell you when something isn't right - they ALWAYS do, it's just a matter of listening to what they have to say.
 
#18 ·
Your friend sounds like she has an extreme and impractical set of ideas when it comes to human relationships with animals. I don't know her, but other people who espouse those ideas have turned out to cause a lot of suffering for both people and animals. Some of them have no qualms about stealing animals and "setting them free" to die of exposure, be hit by vehicles, starve to death slowly, or be eaten by predators. They equate domestication with human slavery. It's a philosophical stance only made possible by extremely little exposure to animals. A product of our times.
 
#20 ·
Hi ReinDancer, All!

I can assure you that given a rider with decent skills, and tack that fits them properly, carrying a rider causes a horse no acute pain. Does it cause premature wear and tear? Well, probably; does running, or weight-lifting, or basketball? Do we let that stop us from doing what we enjoy?
Then why would it concern Mr. Horse; he is getting to go out and play, he knows more pleasurable stuff is in store when he gets back to the barn, and he loves his pet human.
Of the animals in my care, I ride three regularly:
George the Mule loves to explore. Oily, my XL Thoroughbred loves to run. Banjo, my elderly Paint, after a long retirement standing around in the pasture with nothing to do, just loves being chosen. And altho riding him is pretty much limited to easy going on flat ground, I "choose" him because he so obviously enjoys it. These animals are my pets, yes, but even more, they are my friends.
But instead of asking us, why not ask Calypso? Can't you feel the joy he experiences when you work together as a team?
If your friend has never had a close bond with an animal, and particularly with an equine, they really have no idea what they are talking about; they are just parroting something they have heard someone else say, ad nauseam.
Smile, nod, and let it slip on past, 'cause you have first-hand "from the horses mouth" knowledge that it just ain't so.

My $.02. Steve
 
#21 ·
First off, you are never going to "win" with a person with that opinion. So just move on from that and stop talking to the person about it. :lol:

To answer your question, though, I always think about what a wild horse's life would be like. It's a tough life, finding food, braving weather, avoiding predators, dealing with injury. Also, pack life for any animal is not all roses. Stallions must work towards the top of the pack and work to stay there, mares can be picked on, controlled, etc...

I like to think our horses live a darned cushy life where they don't need to worry about their next meal, their sore foot, the predatory animals, the weather, etc. Plus, they were BORN into a life like this. It's not like they are thinking, "Oh, I wish I could run free on the range like my great-grandpa..."
 
#24 ·
I like to think our horses live a darned cushy life where they don't need to worry about their next meal, their sore foot, the predatory animals, the weather, etc. Plus, they were BORN into a life like this. It's not like they are thinking, "Oh, I wish I could run free on the range like my great-grandpa..."
Hi Jan, All!

My horses (and George the half-assed) are spoiled. Spoiled rotten I tell ya; Pampered Pasture Pests . . . um; Pets, that is, who wouldn't know what to do without their heated waterers and hay-hut. And cushy poop-pile for mid-morning nappies.
Times they have "escaped" bondage, they do not "head for the hills" (hundreds of square miles of National Forest immediately to the west), but rather trot down to visit the neighbors horses and see what they have to eat. ("The greener grass . . .")
I'm totally sure that if we didn't round them up and chase them home, they would eventually wonder back on their own volition. So much for "wild" horses :)

ByeBye! Steve
 
#22 ·
Does your friend own a dog or cat? If she does her argument is mostly just trouble-stirring. Maybe she would rather horses were bred like cattle to feed the house-pets. No, she probably thinks we shouldn't have those either. So no domestic animals at all? What a sad world she would live in. No cats, no dogs - more mice and rats and bugs.

Whats her line on working dogs? Police dogs and farm dogs are probably the most common these days. And seeing-eye dogs, why should they have to give their lives in that way. Less common now but what about the dog sleigh teams that helped tame the wilderness. Really, we owe animals a lot and they do it willingly and deserve the care and attention that goes with this domesticity. And there are the exceptions, there are people who don't deserve to have animals, quite often they don't deserve to have kids either, but there are people who care and try to fix what is broke.

How does this 'friend' picture her world, can she actually describe it, or is it just her idea of idealistic.

:gallop:
 
#23 ·
Honestly, I look at it through historical context.

Horses are domesticated animals. They have been bred, born, trained, and kept to be a part of the human world, be it for whatever purpose. Historically, we’ve depended on them just as much as they depend on us. We would not be the world or society we are today, for good or for ill, without them. The same goes for other domesticated livestock and pets- where would we be without horses, cows, sheep, goats, chickens, pigs, donkeys, camels, etc? Each has served a purpose in the development of nations, trade, transportation, warfare, food production, and so much more.

If we think about horses in first-world nations, most lead rather sedate lives where they don’t have to do very much, and their health and wellbeing is almost micro-managed to an obsessive degree when held up against the standard of animals living in developing nations- of which there are a far, far greater number.

There are obviously always exceptions. Abuse exists. Ignorance, greed, and violence exist. They have from the dawn of time, they will exist forever and anon until the stars fall out of the sky, because a perfect society has never and will never exist, however much we wish and hope it weren’t so. Humans are animals too, and many times we do act like it.

But on that note, I think your friend’s definition of “abuse” is rather obtuse, and a bit self-indulgent and childish. It assumes there is no good aspect of horses being with people in any capacity, or that horses receive no benefits to their relationship with humans, which is simply wrong. A vast majority of horses enjoy their relationships with people, many enjoy being ridden and interacting with people on the ground, and having a job and exercise is mentally and physically stimulating for a horse, which benefits them in the long run. Wild horses get stimulation from simply having to survive, but a domestic horse rarely has to worry about predators or finding enough to eat or drink.

We do have a burden placed upon us to be good stewards, and in my mind I have a duty to my animals, big and small. I happily change cage bedding or muck stalls, fill water bowls, buckets and bottles, brush, curry, and groom, give treats and attention, worry over illnesses, cuts, scrapes, and so forth, and try to ensure that my animals are prepared mentally to live in a world that isn’t always sensitive to them by de-sensitizing them as much as possible to things they might encounter. I also try to equip them with training and socialization that will ensure that they are not afraid and have a basis for interacting safely with other humans who might not feel the way I do. They benefit me in immeasurable ways, so I try to benefit them just as much by always leaving them better than I found them. I feel like most animal lovers in developed nations try to the best of their ability and knowledge to do the same.

I would encourage your friend to look at charities such as The Brooke and see what sort of conditions animals in developing nations go through. Abuse and suffering are a much bigger problem in these nations due to simple ignorance, lack of resources, or myths that have held on, and The Brooke tries to help both people and animals by providing education and desperately needed veterinary care to people who might not otherwise have access. But yet people depend on their animals so, so much more in these nations. A donkey might be the only way someone can carry enough water back to their village to ensure that their children have water to drink. A horse might pull the materials needed to build a house, a school, or a hospital, and that may be how the driver affords to feed his family every day. For those of us living in first-world nations, we often forget there are people in this world living in utter, abject poverty, depending every day on their horses, donkeys or mules.
 
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