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Equine Meat at my Local Grocer

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        01-22-2014, 07:23 PM
      #71
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    Who in this country is going to take the time to break all those slaughter bound horses to lead, and lead calmly?
    Well that's exactly the problem isn't it? We're just not willing to go to those lengths for our animals.

    And it's not my responsibility to come up with a "solution" because I never said that horse slaughter should be illegal. Just that I will not be contributing to it. I'm not obligated to eat horse meat just because there are unwanted horses out there.
         
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        01-22-2014, 11:36 PM
      #72
    Showing
    No one said you would be obligated to eat the meat. This whole thread isn't about being obligated to eat the meat, it was about being upset that the meat was available.

    No one can force you to eat a meat you didn't want. I have eaten horse and didn't like it. Even if it were available in my markets, I wouldn't buy it...but I don't like fish or most types of pork either. All I'm saying is that it's not my place to get my panties in a bunch about seeing fish or pork chops in the meat isle *shrugs*.

    Folks like different meats, all non-humans are meat animals in the grand scheme of things. If you don't approve of a certain meat...for whatever reason, then just don't buy it/eat it. It's that simple.

    It's the folks who scream bloody murder about slaughter and then can't come up with a viable alternative that bug the crap out of me.
         
        01-23-2014, 12:42 AM
      #73
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ponyboy    
    Well that's exactly the problem isn't it? We're just not willing to go to those lengths for our animals.

    And it's not my responsibility to come up with a "solution" because I never said that horse slaughter should be illegal. Just that I will not be contributing to it. I'm not obligated to eat horse meat just because there are unwanted horses out there.
    No, that's not the problem. It's not about what lengths we are willing to go "for our animals". "We" are not willing to do that for "everyone else's" horse(s). And why should we (would you?) It's not necessary to lead a horse in by hand to be killed. It doesn't make them die any better. It's certainly not any more humane just because the horse is being lead. It might give someone a "warm fuzzy" because it "looks" nicer, but the reality is that it doesn't make a difference. If I walk a creature to the place it will die, give it a pat on the head, step back and it's killed that is no different than if the next creature rides in on a conveyor belt to the same point and is killed without the pat on the head. Neither one is any more or any less humane. It's been said to death. It's not the killing that's inhumane. It's the system that has to be used for hauling and holding, because there are so few processing centers (not sure if any have opened up recently, but for awhile it's seemed that they are all being shipped to Mexico or Canada). You can get a pig or cow processed within a couple hundred miles or less in most places (at least in the deep South), but horses have to hauled, held, hauled and held before they can reach their final destination, because the majority of people in the US are so hung up on animals being pets that they only care about not slaughtering them, even if it has to result in an even less humane situation for the animals (at least we didn't slaughter them so they could starve or die in some other more prolonged and unpleasant way).
    Even the anti slaughter groups biggest point (which is not invalid) is the cruelty of getting the horses to the processing facility. They ignore that by shutting down and making it impossible to have more processing facilities they are contributing to the problem. Even the AVMA (the Vet equivalent to the AMA) realizes the problem and supports having more facilities in the US.

    In the words of my CO (and my father too for that matter). "Don't want to hear about problems. Give me solutions".
    So I DO have a solution for all the people who want to save all equines in the US from slaughter and all the people who want them to live humanely.
    1. Proved me roughly 4 million (4,000,000) contiguous acres of acceptable rural land in the area of the deep South with a subtropical climate (most cost effective and healthy when you can graze almost all year) suitable for raising horses.
    2. Provide me with a 501C3 status.
    3. Grant me a waiver to provide the meat of horses when they die for use in feeding carnivores and meat eating animals.
    4. Provide gov't funds to cover inspections, vet expenses, locating and transporting horses that need to be sent to this rescue facility, a sufficient number of wranglers, etc... (basically create a LOT of civil service jobs for the man power and activities required to operate a facility of this magnitude successfully and humanely).
    5. Provide $50 billion ($50,000,000,000.00) in "seed" money to cover the cost of fencing, buildings, equipment, a needed medical facility, etc, etc, etc.... to include housing for the people who work this facility since they'll need to be living at various locations spread out over this massive area in order to do the job.

    It will be monumental, but it will allow for all horses to avoid slaughter by being sent here to live out their life and die of natural (or at least relatively natural - e.g. Colic- causes.
    There's the solution to the problem and even the AVMA will likely support it from the humane position.

    Now give the price tag to the American public, especially their political representation and see how far it gets. The 50 billion won't even be the biggest problem. It's the cost of all those new public sector jobs and the expenses of operating it. Granted the sale of the meat from the horse that eventually die will provide a small amount of income (and every little bit helps) but the vast majority will be bourn by the US taxpayer and you find that their love for the beautiful "pet" horses will disappear faster than an August snow fall in Miami. It's easy for people to say they want to don't want something when they don't see the whole picture and it doesn't directly impact them. But show them the whole situation and let them have to pay for the solution and it becomes a different matter.
         
        01-23-2014, 12:59 AM
      #74
    Super Moderator
    We, (the taxpayers) already do that.

    We've almost gone that far with the mustang surplus here on Oklahoma. We taxpayers only spend $100 million a year, mostly to keep aging old unadoptable mustangs on year 'round beautiful pastures until they die of natural causes. Some big ranches near here have sold all their cattle and run these aging mustangs and collect more than $1 million each for the herds of mustangs they pasture for us taxpayers. One ranch, owned by friends of ours up in Osage County, gets over $2 million a year.
    Foxtail Ranch likes this.
         
        01-23-2014, 01:24 AM
      #75
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cherie    
    We, (the taxpayers) already do that.

    We've almost gone that far with the mustang surplus here on Oklahoma. We taxpayers only spend $100 million a year, mostly to keep aging old unadoptable mustangs on year 'round beautiful pastures until they die of natural causes. Some big ranches near here have sold all their cattle and run these aging mustangs and collect more than $1 million each for the herds of mustangs they pasture for us taxpayers. One ranch, owned by friends of ours up in Osage County, gets over $2 million a year.
    Ah, but my way covers all equines (including the unwanted ones from the BLM) . Of course the annual cost will be MUCH higher, since it's many times that number of horses coming in annually (the civil service salaries alone for the number of people needed will be in the multi millions - in the 8 digits - not counting the rest of the massive operating expense). 4 million acres is a lot of real estate to maintain and the number of horses will be staggering so the expense of maintaining them will be too (but the feed bill will be comparative less per horse than in OK). Of course I'm gambling that the 4 million acres will be enough to handle the near steady stream of arrivals and that enough will die off before it reaches capacity so that before it maxes out the outgoing bodies will keep pace with the incoming rescues. Otherwise we'll have to get more money to buy more land and the additional cost of preparing it for keeping more horses. We'd have to have more land ready if the numbers start approaching 1.5 million rescues (and it could easily exceed that since they are all being kept until they die a natural death). A horse kept on grazing with good management and medical care can exceed 30 years so the facility could eventually end up with having to be 3X the size with all the associated cost.
    We could end up being in the top 10 items on the budget, bases on cost. But before then the tax payer and gov't would say enough is enough and probably put a massive processing center on the facility to slaughter all horses over a certain age and start recouping some of the expense (and most of the population would be ok with that by then, because they won't want to keep paying equine welfare for every unwanted horse in the country)
         
        01-23-2014, 01:26 AM
      #76
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kiwi79    
    If a horse was slaughtered humanely and there was minimal suffering and ended up being sold in a butcher shop as opposed to a neglected horse left sitting in a paddock with inadequate care/feed then I know which one I would which one I would feel sorriest for. I find it interesting that this bothers you more than the racing industry which creates so many unwanted horses. I do not participate in anything relating to this industry for that reason but also accept that it is there and not likely to go anywhere anytime soon.
    totally agree with this! I would much rather see an animal get slaughtered then be neglected.
    I used to raise dairy goats, I showed on a national level. Most times there were more little boys then were needed to breed. And not everyone wants a 200+ lb pet goat. I had a deal with a local raptor rehabilitation center. They came and got any male goat that was not good enough quality for breeding. They would raise them up to about eight months old and butcher them. They fed them to the birds. A lot of my friends thought this was horrible. But goats are cute when little, and a lot of people don't realize how much care they are. They need their feet trimmed every four weeks, and they don't eat everything contrary to popular belief. They are very needy animals and you can't just tie them out and expect them to behave.
    Horses were livestock long before we rode them and made them pets. And I would much rather see them not go to waste then be tied out and forgotten about.
         
        01-23-2014, 09:33 AM
      #77
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cherie    
    We, (the taxpayers) already do that.

    We've almost gone that far with the mustang surplus here on Oklahoma. We taxpayers only spend $100 million a year, mostly to keep aging old unadoptable mustangs on year 'round beautiful pastures until they die of natural causes. Some big ranches near here have sold all their cattle and run these aging mustangs and collect more than $1 million each for the herds of mustangs they pasture for us taxpayers. One ranch, owned by friends of ours up in Osage County, gets over $2 million a year.
    Any idea how I can get in on that scheme? I would like to make $2 million to watch horses graze.

    Of course if that program is discontinued, we'll have more money for bombs and such we need.
    Cherie likes this.
         
        01-23-2014, 12:47 PM
      #78
    Started
    I wish there was an easy solution. I do know they could make the transport and slaughter process lots kinder.

    There are things available in markets I wouldn't touch unless starvation was close.

    MN Tigerstripes likes this.
         
        01-24-2014, 09:12 AM
      #79
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Any idea how I can get in on that scheme? I would like to make $2 million to watch horses graze.
    The people that collect $2 mil a year own 25,000 deeded acres of tall grass prairie plus leased ground in Northern Ok.

    The ranch out east of us is also around that size. Last I heard, they had almost 1500 mustang geldings (some may still be studs) that have all been declared 'un-adoptable'.

    Back to that old saying "It takes money to make money".
    Foxtail Ranch and Yogiwick like this.
         

    Tags
    #abuse, #help, #ontario, #slaughter, #thoroughbred

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