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help that is no help

This is a discussion on help that is no help within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        12-05-2012, 09:27 AM
      #21
    Foal
    Question as I am really interested.... If a horse is dancing and swinging their hip how do you get your horse to move the hip? I don't like the statement that touching that "tickle spot" will have most horses kick or worse. If a horse is dancing on the end of their lead for any reason and swinging their hip how do you get them to move their hip without touching them? I know I have always touched them lightly to get them to move any part of their body, and NEVER had I have a horse kick or worse and that is including our 2 year olds and studs that I might be holding.
    themacpack and Cherie like this.
         
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        12-05-2012, 09:48 AM
      #22
    Teen Forum Moderator
    I'm sorry, but I can't give you even an ounce of sympathy either. Your mare should know not to kick (by the way, I move my mare's hindquarters by touching her flank as well, or pushing lightly if she doesnt respond immediately.) You've been told this by everyone else though, so let me ask you this.

    Say your Husband loves cars. (might be sports, or bikes, or whatever...) They're his passion, just like horses are your passion. Do you help him with odd jobs like handing him wrenches or such? If you do, good. You're doing almost as much as he is when it comes to doing the 'non-personal' stuff with what he loves to be helpful. But what if he asked you to stand there and just be 'moral support' and 'be sweet' for a good half hour or more, just staring at him as he changed the oil on his old junker car that he's trying to get running, and actually act really interested and learn to do it, completely by yourself, just by observing him?

    Go further. What if, after watching him for that time, he suddenly hands you the oil changing equipment and such and tell you 'Ok, I don't want to work on this anymore but it still needs done, so why don't you do it by yourself while I go work on my Camaro for a while?' would to agree to do it? Maybe, maybe not.

    But if you did agree, can you completely change it, going off of memory without asking him ANYHTING, and do it exactly like he would? NO! You most likely can not, and even if you can, you should not expect that everyone else can.

    And when you mess up accidently (and remember, you were trying your very hardest to please him and help) he comes marching over, yelling at you that 'how dare you mess up, its SO simple, I can't believe you didnt even see how I did it a few minutes ago and now you've ruined it you good for nothing wife!'

    How would you feel? Rotten? Mad? Would you ever volunteer to help him again? I know I wouldn't. Heck, I give him brownie points if he even went to the barn with you again or continued trying to help you! Its not his fault that your horse has tempermental issues, just like it wouldn't be your fault that an oil change on an old car would be hard for you...even if its a totally normal, mundane task for him.


    If your mare can't even handle being tied up for 20 minutes while you work with the baby, she definitely shouldn't have been handed over to a non-horsey person. That's just asking for trouble.
         
        12-05-2012, 09:52 AM
      #23
    Yearling
    I have no sympathy either. Having a horsey DH or not, I LOVE for them to be out at the barn with me. Whether feeding, riding or training. If he didn't know what he was doing I would have helped him and not scolded him. For the horse, she shouldn't have kicked out in the first place! That's not right, horses don't just kick out because they're "tickled" plain and simple, touching my horse there or ANYWHERE and applying pressure he moves AWAY. Doesn't kick...I feel sorry for your DH, sounds like he was just trying to help.
         
        12-05-2012, 10:25 AM
      #24
    Green Broke
    So you have an ill-behaved mare that you have not trained not to kick (as has already been said, your excuse for her behavior simply is no excuse - it is entirely possible, I'd say necessary, for a horse to be taught that is NOT an acceptable response to any touch) and a husband who is a saint.
    kitten_Val, Cherie and DrumRunner like this.
         
        12-05-2012, 11:44 AM
      #25
    Green Broke
    Well, what an unsympathetic crowd.

    I have seen few horses that will not involuntarily respond to pressure near their "individually located" point of the hip, what I call the tickle spot on the flank. I train all my horses, including my mare, to move any part of their body that I "decisively" point at - not touch. There is no need for my needs to try and train involuntary responses out of them. I had asked him to keep her busy/company. He, I suppose, got bored and was asking her to do things he has seen me do. Only, he hadn't paid close enough attention during the multitude of times he has seen me ask one of my horses to move some part of their body one way or the other to notice I point, not touch. There was no "need" for him to have her move her hindquarters. I suppose it was my fault for not tellng him to just hold her, do not ask her to do anything.

    But, point well taken...DH is a saint. Honestly macpack, you know how to hurt a person. I almost never ask him to hold my horses or interact in any way, only this was a special case. She stands tied just fine except at this point in time which I expect will quickly pass. I just needed a little help. I incorrectly assumed he could hold my sweet lovable mare w/o an incident after all these years of being w me and my horses. There have been dozens if not hundreds of times I "wished" I could ask him to do some simple task - but didn't b/c I knew it would be above his pay grade and potentially dangerous. It was the frustration of asking him to help this one time which I firmly believed he could manage.

    At least he has learned enough to notice it is like "night and day" (his words) between holding my untrained filly (which he has done w/o incident for a minute or less at at time) vs my mare. My mare is far from "difficult" to hold.

    I will make a note of it: re-hire DH, apologize, have him sainted, provide/offer him more training.

    Come on guys...its frustrating to have a non-horsey DH! He isn't the victim here. Either way, thank you all, it has forced me to rethink my perspective.<<sigh>>
         
        12-05-2012, 12:18 PM
      #26
    Foal
    Okay please forgive me I am still interested in how this works. So I am holding your mare while you are with your filly. Her jealousy is acting up and she is now dancing on the lead. How would I get her to move her hip if she is not paying attention to me but paying attention to you with the filly? I can stand there and point all day but if she isnt focused on me how is she going to figure out what I want? Im trying to think if I was not a horse person.

    In my barn if you are beside the horse doing anything from grooming to fixing tack the horse is suppose to look straight ahead not looking at me. This way they don't get hit by an elbow when trying to tighten the cinch, or tempted to nip at clothing. So if I am beside my horse he is looking straight ahead but I need him to move his hip, how do I get him to move it if I just point at it? I normally would just lightly touch him and he moves.

    Sorry I am not the most experienced horse person so I am wondering how this works.
    themacpack likes this.
         
        12-05-2012, 12:40 PM
      #27
    Super Moderator
    Still shaking my head here.

    This spoiled horse has YOU trained She desperately needs to be taught to tie anytime, anywhere, for any length of time with anything going on around her.

    She desperately needs to be taught to move from pressure when asked to move -- no matter where the pressure is applied.

    She desperately needs to be taught to respect anyone that is handling her.

    You are putting all of the blame in the wrong place. She just has horrid manners.

    Goes back to shaking head.
         
        12-05-2012, 12:42 PM
      #28
    Weanling
    A horse should be taught safe behavior around humans. Safe behavior includes not to kick, bite, step on a person who is holding them or near them.
    The humans should not be required to learn special signals or risk being kicked.
    Does your vet, farrier, etc. all understand the signal? I hope so.
         
        12-05-2012, 01:06 PM
      #29
    Started
    Bit of a sidebar - I understand DH stands for husband but what is the D for? Dear? That sounds silly to me. Someone?
         
        12-05-2012, 01:08 PM
      #30
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crimsonsky    
    bit of a sidebar - I understand DH stands for husband but what is the D for? Dear? That sounds silly to me. Someone?
    LOL! In my house it varies with the day/application. It can mean Dear, Darling, D*mned, whatever word fits that starts with D.
    Misty'sGirl and waresbear like this.
         

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