Horse Hoarding. - Page 4
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Keeping and Caring for Horses > Horse Talk

Horse Hoarding.

This is a discussion on Horse Hoarding. within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

    Like Tree73Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        06-18-2013, 11:22 PM
      #31
    Trained
    People who are hoarders in the true sense of the word need treatment not condemnation.
    Now I am not trying to enforce some idea of being politically correct. I am though trying to give some insight into the problem.
    For the most part these are not evil people. They do however need treatment and understanding without those two things this problem will only grow.
    Yes it is horrible for the animals and humans involved.
    Any discussion of the problem without all the facts is pointless. Shalom
    Shoebox likes this.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        06-18-2013, 11:28 PM
      #32
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    People who are hoarders in the true sense of the word need treatment not condemnation.
    Now I am not trying to enforce some idea of being politically correct. I am though trying to give some insight into the problem.
    For the most part these are not evil people. They do however need treatment and understanding without those two things this problem will only grow.
    Yes it is horrible for the animals and humans involved.
    Any discussion of the problem without all the facts is pointless. Shalom
    Yes, animal hoarders are different from the people who just collect horses (or whatever animal) for some ulterior motive and completely neglect their animals. I do think hoarders need help, but I don't think OP was really talking about 'hoarders' in the true sense of the word. A hoarder feels like they are truly helping save the world, one animal at a time, often to the detriment of themselves.

    Of course, OP, do correct me if I'm wrong.
         
        06-18-2013, 11:39 PM
      #33
    Trained
    I am a mental health professional I make no apologies for that. I don't think the OP was doing anything but starting a conversation. A much needed and very interesting one. I am not trying to argue just giving my two cents worth.
    All horse owners need to recognize and try to intervene if they suspect neglect or unhealthy conditions.
    We all suffer from the publicity hoarders receive on the evening news. Especially those of us who own more than a few horses.
    I have been called a hoarder because I have purchased or taken in abused or neglected animals to either end their suffering or rehabilitate and find a more suitable home for them..
    Called one in fact by the two people I refused to sell a horse to. Shalom
         
        06-19-2013, 12:01 AM
      #34
    Started
    Correct me if I am wrong Donald, but I think hoarders of 'stuff/things' are different from hoarders of animals.

    The 'stuff' collectors, fill up their homes, shed, property etc., with things they never use and often never see it again, as it adds to the piles. It makes them feel secure maybe. Protects them in a way, from the outside world.

    With animal hoarders, I think there is a different mind-set. The hoarder truly thinks he/she is saving animals. Saving from a worse fate than they offer. Thinking nobody else can or will, look after them as they do - even though in most cases, the animals are living in less than desirable conditions and would be better off in another home. Long after things are out of control, they still take in more animals and even allow their supposed rescues, to breed indiscriminately.

    In both cases, it certainly becomes a sickness, even though it might have started quite innocently. By what I've seen, it is not particularly sex related either. Both men and women seem similarly affected.

    Lizzie
    Celeste, demonwolfmoon and Shoebox like this.
         
        06-19-2013, 12:14 AM
      #35
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    People who are hoarders in the true sense of the word need treatment not condemnation.
    Now I am not trying to enforce some idea of being politically correct. I am though trying to give some insight into the problem.
    For the most part these are not evil people. They do however need treatment and understanding without those two things this problem will only grow.
    Yes it is horrible for the animals and humans involved.
    Any discussion of the problem without all the facts is pointless. Shalom
    I know that you are a mental health professional, but being raised by two people with various MH conditions, I have my own possibly skewed perspective.

    Do they need help? Certainly. Will they go get it? In at least my experience, MOST OF THE TIME, NO.

    And that is the problem. You have to be willing at some point to get help. We can't do it for them.

    Guess what? You can't get someone treatment if they refuse it, unless they're a danger to themselves or others. Do I have that right? So my mom takes care of my crazy aunt, who is "fine' to live outside, until she stops taking her meds, then as far as I know, she has to be periodically put right back in the hospital, whether it is the Balboa Navy hospital or wherever else she goes. And my mom, no saint herself, isn't privvy to all of the info because my aunt is an adult. Last I heard, she was trying to be put as a caretaker of my aunt...she fullfulls that position anyway, but just doesn't get paid for it.

    Guess what? That woman made my childhood/young adulthood a LIVING HELL. Do I have a certain sympathy that chemicals in her head made her do mean, hateful things to a kid? Yes. Do I have certain sympathy that she can't always control what she does, and thinks people are spying on her? Sure...but somewhere in there, at some point there had to have been the thought "hm, maybe this is messed up". I mean, who has like four dogs, god knows how many cats, six guinea pigs, turtles, rats and god knows that else in a one bedroom condo, all windows sealed, blankets over those and tacked shut so the neighbors "can't see in" and thinks that is normal? Do you have any idea what that smells like? I mean, how many times do you allow your niece/sister or whoever step in dog crap in the bathroom hallway because you think it's ok for your pitbull to go indoors like a yorkie, but you're too lazy (and yes, it was lazy) to clean it up? (Oh yeah, dogs weren't allowed outside either....the neighbors might see them...X_X).

    At SOME point there was a little voice, or a loud voice that said, this isn't right.

    How many times do the animals get taken away before the hoarder thinks "maybe I'm wrong?"...but it's always someone else's fault right? The neighbor, the evil jerk who called animal control or whatever.

    So yeah, maybe I'm biased, but I feel more for the animal, who has no say in the circumstances...of that lady Ware mentioned, the one I "bought" Strider from, and even my messed up Family. They may have started with good intentions, but it unraveled...and every time someone suggests a solution it's shot down repeatedly.

    I give everyone a chance, and I tried to help my family, but at some point, the humans must choose to help themselves--we can't do it for them!...and my sympathy lies with those who *cannot* change their situation--the animal.

    /rant and Sorry if I take it a bit personally. =/

    ETS: just to make it clear, the house was also filled with books and other items "in case the world goes Blooey", aka "when the rapture occurs". So think piles of books taller than my head, stashes of bathing items that will never get used, peed on clothes etc. I have pictures of the stove, aka, the litterbox somewhere, as well as the conditions the turtles were kept in...every few years when I forget I took those pics, I go through stuff to scan for FB or whatever and they surprise me =/ UGH

    Now end rant ..again...
    Muppetgirl likes this.
         
        06-19-2013, 12:22 AM
      #36
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    I know that you are a mental health professional, but being raised by two people with various MH conditions, I have my own possibly skewed perspective.

    Do they need help? Certainly. Will they go get it? In at least my experience, MOST OF THE TIME, NO.

    And that is the problem. You have to be willing at some point to get help. We can't do it for them.

    Guess what? You can't get someone treatment if they refuse it, unless they're a danger to themselves or others. Do I have that right? So my mom takes care of my crazy aunt, who is "fine' to live outside, until she stops taking her meds, then as far as I know, she has to be periodically put right back in the hospital, whether it is the Balboa Navy hospital or wherever else she goes. And my mom, no saint herself, isn't privvy to all of the info because my aunt is an adult. Last I heard, she was trying to be put as a caretaker of my aunt...she fullfulls that position anyway, but just doesn't get paid for it.

    Guess what? That woman made my childhood/young adulthood a LIVING HELL. Do I have a certain sympathy that chemicals in her head made her do mean, hateful things to a kid? Yes. Do I have certain sympathy that she can't always control what she does, and thinks people are spying on her? Sure...but somewhere in there, at some point there had to have been the thought "hm, maybe this is messed up". I mean, who has like four dogs, god knows how many cats, six guinea pigs, turtles, rats and god knows that else in a one bedroom condo, all windows sealed, blankets over those and tacked shut so the neighbors "can't see in" and thinks that is normal? Do you have any idea what that smells like? I mean, how many times do you allow your niece/sister or whoever step in dog crap in the bathroom hallway because you think it's ok for your pitbull to go indoors like a yorkie, but you're too lazy (and yes, it was lazy) to clean it up? (Oh yeah, dogs weren't allowed outside either....the neighbors might see them...X_X).

    At SOME point there was a little voice, or a loud voice that said, this isn't right.

    How many times do the animals get taken away before the hoarder thinks "maybe I'm wrong?"...but it's always someone else's fault right? The neighbor, the evil jerk who called animal control or whatever.

    So yeah, maybe I'm biased, but I feel more for the animal, who has no say in the circumstances...of that lady Ware mentioned, the one I "bought" Strider from, and even my messed up Family. They may have started with good intentions, but it unraveled...and every time someone suggests a solution it's shot down repeatedly.

    I give everyone a chance, and I tried to help my family, but at some point, the humans must choose to help themselves--we can't do it for them!...and my sympathy lies with those who *cannot* change their situation--the animal.

    /rant and Sorry if I take it a bit personally. =/

    ETS: just to make it clear, the house was also filled with books and other items "in case the world goes Blooey", aka "when the rapture occurs". So think piles of books taller than my head, stashes of bathing items that will never get used, peed on clothes etc. I have pictures of the stove, aka, the litterbox somewhere, as well as the conditions the turtles were kept in...every few years when I forget I took those pics, I go through stuff to scan for FB or whatever and they surprise me =/ UGH

    Now end rant ..again...
    Agree agree agree......and unfortunately for myself and some immediate family members we are being left with the inanimate object 'hoard' (junk) when these people pass on.....because they don't want help when its offered, don't ask for help when its needed and don't seek help when they cannot enter a room and you sure as hell don't mention the 100 telephone books from 1970-2010 down in the basement.

    That's all I have to say about hoarders and the way they affect other people and animals.......

    People should collect memories......not stuff.
    demonwolfmoon likes this.
         
        06-19-2013, 12:25 AM
      #37
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
    Agree agree agree......and unfortunately for myself and some immediate family members we are being left with the inanimate object 'hoard' (junk) when these people pass on.....because they don't want help when its offered, don't ask for help when its needed and don't seek help when they cannot enter a room and you sure as hell don't mention the 100 telephone books from 1970-2010 down in the basement.

    That's all I have to say about hoarders and the way they affect other people and animals.......

    People should collect memories......not stuff.
    The problem for these people so often - My grandmother was one - is that stuff IS memories. At least in the sense of object hoarding.
    texasgal and dbarabians like this.
         
        06-19-2013, 12:35 AM
      #38
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Celeste    
    Anyone that keeps more animals than they have the time, money, and energy to take care of is a hoarder. I have seen it with dogs, cats, goats, horses, birds, and combinations of all of these.

    To me, you could be a pet hoarder if you only had 3 pets. Hoarding is having more pets than you can take care of.
    Agreed. Some folks have the time, money, and resources for 6 horses, 5 dogs, and 12 cats on their property and everyone gets the care that they need. Most people would be overwhelmed by that amount, but some people can't handle caring for two cats. Either way, the results are the same for the animals regardless of how many are stuck in the unfortunate situation.

    My barn manager isn't an animal hoarder, but she is a good example of not knowing how much is too much. She is always complaining about the amount of work she has to do around the barn every day and how she barely makes enough money to make the job worth it (she has another job at another barn during the day as well). Out of the 16 occupied stalls in the barn, however, 6 of them are hers or her sister's and bring in no money. I think each of them also have at least a couple of horses at their own houses. She almost never finds the time or inclination to ride any of these horses, so just lets people around the barn ride them. One of them is her elderly QH gelding who would never be sold, and the rest are various giveaways or rescues. One was a horse that my friend got that didn't work out (a bucker), so she took him in. Another was one that the barn owner tried for his daughter and didn't work out, but the barn manager felt sorry for him and took him. Then there's the OTTB that I've been riding, and his owners were just trying to find someone to give him away to so he would have a good home. One's a usually lame guy whose history I don't know, but I think it's a similar situation. The last is actually a very well-trained cutting mare who would be a fantastic riding horse, but she is just sitting around.

    And... these are just the horses in the stalls. There are others out in the pasture that belong to her as well. Then there are a number of boarding horses whose owners do not pay full board for various reasons. She always complains about all of the work that she has to do, barely making enough after buying gas and feed, but never seems to realize that most of the horses out there are either hers or their owners are barely covering their own feed bill. All of her horses definitely receive all of the basic care they need and adequate feed, but things such as shoeing get put off far longer than I would like. Teeth floating rarely happens out there for her horses. While things such as worming and vaccinations are covered, I can't help but wonder what would happen if one of her horses were to have a sudden expensive bill, such as an illness or injury. I admire her concern for the horses in need, but I wish that she would realize that it's in her best interests to downsize her herd to either reduce her workload, or to replace those horses with ones who are actually "earning their keep".

    I do understand that it is completely her decision. Especially this time of year she is well within her rights to complain about things in her life. Everyone does. She's obviously aware that her horses are nothing but a money drain on her, but still feels the need to keep them and they get basic care. Some such as the lame horse and the bucker would likely have nowhere to go but the killers. It just wouldn't be right to send her elderly gelding off to the highest bidder. However, no one can doubt that it would be in her best interests to have fewer horses under her own care. Even if just a couple of them were gone she could find that she has more cash and time to actually ride the remaining horses!
         
        06-19-2013, 12:41 AM
      #39
    Trained
    Lizzie there are different reasons people hoard both animals and items.
    I only wish there was a simple solution. Sadly as demonwolf and muppetgirl can testify animals and people in relationships with the hoarder also suffer.
    I feel for both of these young women.
    They both have a right to be angry and I don't blame them. Not one bit.
    Mental health issues are so misunderstood by most that the shame and guilt felt by family members often goes unresolved.
    Demonwolf and Muppetgirl I hope each of you continues to recover from the less than joyful childhood you seem to have experienced. I wish both of you only the best.
    This has been a very important discussion. One free of hostility and stimulating.
    Animal hoarders involve innocent creatures that should have been lived a better healthier life. IMO that contributes to the anger directed at the hoarder. It also adds to the misconceptions about the illness. Shalom
    EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
         
        06-19-2013, 12:48 AM
      #40
    Banned
    This has happened to me in adulthood not childhood....I didn't even know what hoarding was until I helped these people move house and I entered the basement and innocently said 'gee there's lots of stuff' and I nearly got a new ear hole chewed for saying it......I married into it.....my own mother probably owned four cooking pots when I was growing up......the lady that hoards has about 35.......probably more.....it makes me angry that they don't see how it affects others and they seemingly care much more about 'things' than they do others....
    dbarabians likes this.
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    From my hoarding stash to yours! Everything english huntjumpliz Tack and Equipment Classifieds 41 02-21-2013 07:30 PM
    Do you know about Animal Hoarding hoardresearch Horse Talk 0 07-12-2011 08:16 PM
    The difference between RESCUING and HOARDING TeeBee Horse Training 28 09-29-2010 07:08 PM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:50 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0