Horse slaughter again... changes coming July 2013 - Page 3
   

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Horse slaughter again... changes coming July 2013

This is a discussion on Horse slaughter again... changes coming July 2013 within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • 2013 horse slaughter rules
  • Horse 6 million pounds

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    12-06-2012, 08:32 PM
  #21
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman    

I keep wondering about TB's...it's no secret how many TB's go to slaughter in the US, and in Australia TB's are something like 80% of the slaughter horses if I remember corrrectly. So what is going to happen to them all? In the case of TB's, the new standards could actually change the whole methodology of breeding - that would be good IMO, but an industry changing development nonetheless...
Right now there are laws that prevent the direct shipping from the track to slaughter. Absolutely doesn't prevent someone taking the horses and shipping them a month later though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Conway    

Will passports be transferable between owners? If I say "no" on a horse and then something happens to me, the horse is sold, can the new owner say "yes"
I don't know how it will be here. But in the UK if you say a horse cannot be shipped, it can't even if ownership changes as the passport goes with the horse.
However if the horse is ok to ship, that can be changed to not ok. Once not ok to ship to slaughter, my understanding is that this can never change regardless of new owners.
     
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    12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
  #22
Banned
Anyone science/medically inclined have any idea if there is an alternative to Bute that is acceptable?
Is it possible that Bute could be removed from the market and something else take it's place?
     
    12-07-2012, 01:31 AM
  #23
Foal
Icelandic horses are bred like cattle. The culls are turned out and left wild then brought in for slaughter.
     
    12-07-2012, 01:53 AM
  #24
Started
This brings to mind another topic...
13,000 horses could be destroyed in 2013 if Ontario horse racing industry collapses - thestar.com
Last I heard there is deffinitely at least one big track being shut down... And here it's not just thoroughbreds that will suffer, it's standardbreds too.. Woodbine is closing for the winter and not opening till April or May... And there are a bunch of owners up here who don't have a lot of money who will suffer because of this and will be forced to get rid of some, or all, of their horses... ontario, especially southern ontario, is big on horse racing, what with Woodbine and Fort Erie just a few hours apart. I can personally tell you of at least 5 racing barns I know of... all within 30mins of eachother
     
    12-07-2012, 07:41 AM
  #25
Trained
My guess is that folks need to think of meat markets other than the EU. Let the prices rise in the EU, as regulation always does. It may be time to think of Asia as a horse meat market, and maybe developing it.

There isn't any good evidence that this will improve anyone's health. This is the EU protecting their farmers, who cannot compete with less regulated producers in America and elsewhere. There is no way most horses out west, at least, will ever have passports. Unwanted horses will end up shot in the wild, or simply released there. Then they will become prey...
     
    12-07-2012, 09:21 AM
  #26
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexS    
Right now there are laws that prevent the direct shipping from the track to slaughter. Absolutely doesn't prevent someone taking the horses and shipping them a month later though.
Perhaps, but there is one track in my state where owners and trainers ship their horses off to an auction known for being filled with kill-buyers. Unfortunately not directly to slaughter because of the maybe two middle men involved (the guy who picks up the horses every week and the kill buyers). That could have been my boy...which makes me kind of sick to think about. One of his very close relatives was sold to slaughter from that very track (the name escapes me at the moment). Those horses go from the track to being a slab of meat in less than a week.
     
    12-07-2012, 09:59 AM
  #27
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
My guess is that folks need to think of meat markets other than the EU. Let the prices rise in the EU, as regulation always does. It may be time to think of Asia as a horse meat market, and maybe developing it.

There isn't any good evidence that this will improve anyone's health. This is the EU protecting their farmers, who cannot compete with less regulated producers in America and elsewhere. There is no way most horses out west, at least, will ever have passports. Unwanted horses will end up shot in the wild, or simply released there. Then they will become prey...
This law has nothing to do with prices it is to do with horse meat being treated in the same way as any other livestock meat - which also has laws on what animals can and can't be administered by way of drugs. The big difference is that because cattle for eg are bred for consumption extensive tests are done on how drugs effect them and what the withdraw periods are, these tests have never been carried out on horses
It doesnt concern you because you don't eat horse meat but if you did surely you'd want to know what you were eating was safe.
It has nothing to do with EU farmers either - they mostly don't produce horse meat and in the UK most domestic horses are passported as 'not allowed for slaughter for human consumption' so you can give them any medication you like
Also note that in the UK if your horse is registered with a breed studbook that counts as a passport so the same would apply here I imagine.
If people care so little about what happens to their horse when they have no use for it any more then maybe they should think twice about owning one. If all these people in the mid west weigh up the costs of a passport against what they will lose in slaughter sales then I'm sure they will be more than happy to comply - I can't imagine that if they think so little of their horses they ever bother using medications on them anyway
Why should people who do eat horse meat have to risk putting god only knows what into their stomachs just because some countries can't conform or don't want to conform with food safety standards. Asia is already a prime market for horse meat sales - why do you think people there are any less fussy about what goes on their plate than they are in Europe, horsemeat is not cheap.
List of top horsemeat producing countries
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capturehmeat.JPG (44.4 KB, 95 views)
     
    12-07-2012, 10:05 AM
  #28
Super Moderator
The group of investors that is trying to get slaughter houses for horses set up here in the US (same group that has been working in Missouri) has been working on markets in Eastern Europe, Asia and in Africa (where good protein is almost non-existent.

They have also conducted surveys among non-horsey people and ethnic groups here in the US and there appears to be a pretty good potential market here if the price is kept below beef. It is actually more healthy to eat than beef or pork. Horse-meat is called 'cheval' and will be marketed as such herein the US.

I am on this group's mailing list and have spoken many times to one of the organizers. I have been invited to become a member of this organization and invited to their meetings but since I have no actual business connections to horse processing, I have had no reason to join. One must be 'invited' and pass a background check that shows no ties to AR organizations. As a private group they have the right to screen members. I hope they succeed.

I also was sent results of a recent study conducted by Universities that studied the residue of medications that have not been tested in accordance with USDA standards. Bute is not allowed NOT because it persists in animal products but because it has not had official withdrawal times as recognized by USDA and is not labeled with withdrawal. They are trying to correct that now.

If this will copy and paste, here are the results of these studies.
Quote:
Subject: The public health risk of horse meat from American racehorses is unsubstantiated by the 2010 Dodman et al. Paper published in the Journal, Food and Chemical Toxicology.

In their paper,” Association of phenylbutazone usage with horses bought for slaughter: A public health risk”, the authors Nicolas Dodman, Nicolas Blondeau, and Ann Marini assert that human consumption of horsemeat following the administration of therapeutic amounts of the anti-inflammatory medication phenylbutazone (PBZ) could hold health risks similar to the direct consumption of the drug. Examples they included were case studies reported 25-62 years ago in which adults and children administered multiple human therapeutic PBZ doses experienced severe and sometimes fatal outcomes, most notably from aplastic anemia, a precursor to Leukemia.

Direct human administration of PBZ was discontinued in the US as a result of these findings. No studies on the risk of these serious side-effects developing from significantly lower (parts per million or less) exposures – such as those that could conceivably occur from consumption of horsemeat products produced from animals recently treated with PBZ – are present in the scientific literature. Experimental Pathologist and Toxicologist, K.N Woodward, author of “Surveillance of Veterinary Residues” in the book Veterinary Pharmacovigilance (1990) states that “it is difficult to associate human health problems with residues of veterinary drugs”. In other words, there is no cogent frame of reference for the authors’ arguments.

The Dodman et al. 2010 study did not actually measure PBZ levels in any of the horses that were used in this report. Therefore, no conclusions can be drawn – particularly conclusions linking the meat produced by these subject horses and the possibility of human risk. The authors assume that the consumption of horsemeat produced from animals treated with PBZ one week or longer prior to slaughter is unsafe for human consumption. As we consider the millions of pounds of horsemeat consumed each year and the length of time horses have been treated with PBZ we might ask: Why has this risk never been proven?
Indeed, no cause-and-effect relation between consumption of meat products (from horse or other species) from PBZ-treated animals and a single case of aplastic anemia in any child worldwide has ever been reported.

The authors have taken one serious human health threat, in the form of treatment of humans with pharmacological doses (averaging 100 mg) of PBZ - a threat that has since been eliminated - and erroneously extrapolated it to the consumption of horsemeat. It is important to note that this study produced not one thread of scientific evidence supporting the supposed threats to human health resulting from horsemeat consumption. No reference was cited - in fact, no reference exists - to human disease or death associated with the consumption of horsemeat. In short, this study was specifically designed to be inflammatory, not scientific. The authors had political agendas that were promulgated by this publication. The level of scientific rigor both in the design of the study as well as in the peer review
process was lacking. It is indeed surprising that a study of this caliber should make it past the reviewers of this journal. To better understand the level of possible PBZ residue in horses we suggest the following explanation (this applies to PBZ levels in blood, where it is primarily sequestered – levels in muscle would be far less than those calculated below) …

The half-life for PBZ in horses is 5 to 6 hrs (MERCK Veterinary Manual). This is the time needed for a horse to naturally remove 50% of the drug from its system. So, by 6 hours post-administration, half of the PBZ has been eliminated from the horse; by 12 hours, half of this remaining half-concentration has been eliminated, and so forth.

Human PBZ dosages of 100mg were reported in the 1960’s to increase the risk of bone marrow depression disorders. Considering the half-life of PBZ in the body of the horse, in order for a human to consume a 100mg dose of PBZ, assuming that PBZ is evenly distributed throughout the horse, that person would need to eat at least 100lbs of horse meat produced within one hour after that 1000 pound horse was administered a normal therapeutic dose of 1000mg PBZ.

If the same horse were slaughtered the following day, a person would have to consume 1000 lbs of its meat – in other words, an entire horse and about 2/3 of a second horse (assuming a dressing percentage yielding a 600 pound carcass). For horses processed after 2 days withdrawal, 10,000 lbs would need to be consumed. After 3 days, 100,000 pounds. After 4 days, 1 million pounds. After 5 days, 10 million pounds. After 6 days, 100 million pounds. So then, after just a single week of withdrawal, the shortest holding time reported in this study, a person would have to eat 1 billion pounds of horsemeat to consume 100mg of PBZ.

In effect, an adult would need to consume about 1.5 million horses to receive a single, potentially toxic dose of 100mg. That would be more than the total number of horses than have been exported since US horse processing ceased in 2007.

The authors skirt this issue by claiming that any amount of PBZ, even those that cannot be measured by current toxicological screening methods, has the potential to produce aplastic anemia in children. Where is the evidence for such a bold statement? The authors point to the EU regulations prohibiting PBZ administration at any time in the life of a horse intended to enter the human food chain as their “proof”. This doesn’t prove a health risk, it merely highlights a regulation created because there have been no studies on a withdrawal period for this drug.
As reported by Dodman et al., PBZ and its metabolite, oxyphenbutazone, are not distributed evenly throughout the horse. Instead they accumulate in the kidneys and liver as they are naturally and continually removed or degraded from the animal. PBZ is not permanently retained by muscle or fatty tissues, thus its concentration in these edible tissues would be far less than in the blood that is drained away. Also noteworthy is that other potential causes of aplastic anemia include toxic chemicals in gasoline and some pesticides, autoimmune disorders and some types of viral infections. Aplastic anemia: Causes - MayoClinic.com
As indicated in the 11th paragraph of the Dodman et al. 2010 discussion section, the FDA has set no safe levels of PBZ in livestock carcasses. A safe drug withdrawal period can be attained even in animals that have been administered PBZ at some time during their life, as there is a time following administration of PBZ where it has been completely eliminated from an animal’s system with absolutely no detectible residues in any tissues. Perhaps the FDA should work to establish a timeline for withdrawal that results in zero PBZ levels in these carcasses.

If the FDA were to establish a withdrawal period, this would appropriately release an implied and unsubstantiated ban on this important veterinary NSAID for horses. Related public educational programs on drug residues in meat could help provide public assurance on food safety issues and make known how such issues affect food prices and animal agriculture.

Sincerely,

Dr William Day, PhD
Assistant Professor
Morrisville State College Equine Institute
Morrisville, NY

Dr Sheryl King, PhD, PAS
Professor
Director of Equine Studies
Southern Illinois State University
Carbondale, IL

Dr Don Henneke, PhD
Professor
Director of Equine Science
Tarleton State University
Tarleton, TX

Dr Pat Evans, EdD
Director of Equine Science
Scottsdale Community College
Scottsdale, AZ
Gremmy, Corporal, AlexS and 1 others like this.
     
    12-07-2012, 10:11 AM
  #29
Trained
Jaydee, I eat chicken & beef & McDonald's hamburgers. The military has given me shots for anthrax and diseases that don't exist anymore outside of laboratories. I'm banned from donating blood because of when I lived in England. I don't give a rat's rear if someone gave a horse or steer a shot of bute at some point in its life. And do you think the dogs being butchered in Korea had 'passports'? I doubt it.

People squawk about drugs in meat, but we live longer than ever eating it.

The EU doesn't want cheap imported meat entering its markets. That is farmer driven. I remember the riots in the early 90s, as European farmers protested foreign meat coming in and underselling them. This is all about politics, not health. I feel safer eating a McDonald's hamburger, pink slime and all, than I would eating some of the meat I saw hanging in shops in Oxford England. When meat stinks, I don't eat it. Botulism is more dangerous than some bute shot given 3 years earlier.
Corporal and Cherie like this.
     
    12-07-2012, 10:24 AM
  #30
Super Moderator
[QUOTE=Cherie;1788373]The group of investors that is trying to get slaughter houses for horses set up here in the US (same group that has been working in Missouri) has been working on markets in Eastern Europe, Asia and in Africa (where good protein is almost non-existent.

They have also conducted surveys among non-horsey people and ethnic groups here in the US and there appears to be a pretty good potential market here if the price is kept below beef. It is actually more healthy to eat than beef or pork. Horse-meat is called 'cheval' and will be marketed as such herein the US.
These markets have already been systematically explored by European producers - they are close to Europe or already a part of so transportation costs are lower. The meat would still have to conform with the same standards as any other livestock so the same rules would apply - it would be unethical for any respected country to supply potentially harmful meat to anyone regardless of how 'needy' they might be
Horse meat tends to be more expensive than other livestock meat as they don't utilise grass and grain as well as other animals so the meat costs more to produce - especially against chicken/poultry which is the more staple diet of poorer countries
The reason horsemeat prices are high enough for the slaughter to be worthwhile is because its a delicacy. If sold as cheap meat to third world countries then the cost of producing would likely outweigh profits
     

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