Horse slaughter again... changes coming July 2013 - Page 7
   

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Horse slaughter again... changes coming July 2013

This is a discussion on Horse slaughter again... changes coming July 2013 within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Get a horse passport at auction forum
  • EU, horse slaughter, passports required July 2013

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    12-08-2012, 11:52 AM
  #61
Green Broke
Is this a good time to mention I've been fed meat marked not fit for human consumption by the very same gov't who made those rules? Got to love life in the military!
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    12-10-2012, 02:57 PM
  #62
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
In the UK the media did a lot of informing and all vets had to advise their clients as did breed registeries, the BHS, Pony Club, riding clubs, competition venues and there were posters in feed stores and tack shops.
The only way it was enforced was any vet attending to your horse had to ask to see your passport re. If you'd allowed human consumption, all show venues etc required to see it and you couldnt sell at auction without one or send a horse to slaughter. If you bought a horse in any other way you were advised to demand a passport
Horses and ponies registered with a recognised breed society and TB's registered with the bloodstock agency didnt need one as they are all acceptable as passports
I imagine the same will be done here.
Perhaps, but only bc we've been required to have a neg. Coggins at auctions at least since I've frequented them, since the mid-1980's. CERTAINLY it would create more government bureaucracy, which I have had enough of---T.E.A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I don't know what will happen to horses where owners wont pay the costs of euthanasia, it would be a good idea if charities could raise money to pay the costs of that in real hardship cases.
Are you joking? People in trouble are competing for $unemployment in this crummy economy. There is a thread now about not being able to keep/feed/medicate a horse dumped in somebody's pasture--how do we come up with the money to pay for this? Dream on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I'm not opposed to slaughter because there is a need for it but transporting horses to Canada and Mexico that are often sick and injured does not seem right to me.
A new problem, since the non-horse owning bleeding hearts changed a slaughterhouse system that was working. THIS was the argument used to close these slaughterhouses, and this didn't happen routinely until they closed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
The US needs to get its own yards up and running again so people can at least expect some humane treatment and maybe look into allowing horse meat back into the pet food industry. It has to follow the same rules as for human consumption in the UK but maybe the US would relax those.
Doubt it. In NYC restaurants can't use too much salt, or sell mega-sized soft drinks. More regulation on the way, so I don't think so.
THE WHOLE THING sounds like Rahm Emmanuel's, "Don't let a crises go to waste."
Totally disgusted. It will only make lawful citizens into criminals, and cause the rest of us to quietly disobey NEW legislation, just like when FDR was in office and we had a happy, healthy black market.
     
    12-10-2012, 05:18 PM
  #63
Super Moderator
Well it seems to me that the US is going to have to come up with some solutions to its problems and pretty fast as its obvious that the EU is no longer prepared to be the answer and is firmly slamming the door shut on being a dumping ground for unwanted horses from another country that don't comply with standards set for ALL meat that's intended for human consumption - and these are the same standards in the US.
People will have to decide if they are keeping a horse as a pet/riding animal and treat it in the way they would a dog or if they are breeding for meat as per cattle. Pigs, sheep etc. Farmers already manage to comply with these laws or suffer the consequences
Records Can Help Ensure Food Safety
Whether you like bureaucracy or not you're stuck with it because its a far bigger animal than the likes of you or I could ever take on, complaining on this forum about it isnt going to solve anything - write to the EU if you want to make your feelings heard
I really don't understand what people are finding so hard about having a passport for a horse, its no different to a breed registery document or FEI registry which can be used in the UK. It took no more than half an hour per horse for someone to do ours - exactly like doing a Coggins certificate and cost just a few pounds. It didnt hurt at all
     
    12-10-2012, 05:29 PM
  #64
Trained
The US has a very different tradition of freedom than England or the EU. That tradition is dying, but it isn't dead yet. I haven't heard of US cattle having 'passports', and it will take even longer to get them adopted for horses. The horse market is already depressed by the expense of keeping a horse...don't want to think about what would happen if you had to have a vet document everything you do in a passport.

I don't live that far from a vet, but it is $75 for one to drive by in the day. $300 at night. Those prices buy me a view of the vet waving as they pass by. Once they stop, the price starts going up. And I know a lot of places that are 100 miles from the nearest vet, and those are not freeway miles! A friend of mine runs cattle and sheep, herding them with horses and dogs, in a place where the vet would need to drive all day just to get there. And if it had rained, he might not be able to get there at all for several days.

Yes, the EU can and will require it. So we need to look elsewhere, or start using horse meat for food in the US.
     
    12-10-2012, 05:45 PM
  #65
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
The US has a very different tradition of freedom than England or the EU. That tradition is dying, but it isn't dead yet. I haven't heard of US cattle having 'passports', and it will take even longer to get them adopted for horses. The horse market is already depressed by the expense of keeping a horse...don't want to think about what would happen if you had to have a vet document everything you do in a passport.

I don't live that far from a vet, but it is $75 for one to drive by in the day. $300 at night. Those prices buy me a view of the vet waving as they pass by. Once they stop, the price starts going up. And I know a lot of places that are 100 miles from the nearest vet, and those are not freeway miles! A friend of mine runs cattle and sheep, herding them with horses and dogs, in a place where the vet would need to drive all day just to get there. And if it had rained, he might not be able to get there at all for several days.

Yes, the EU can and will require it. So we need to look elsewhere, or start using horse meat for food in the US.
I'm afraid the US definition of freedom is no different to the UK one. I've lived here for 5 years now and see no difference at all
The UK had to comply with EU laws on passports so they could still send horses for slaughter for human consumption and pet food - no alternative markets were ever found. Basically if horse meat is eaten it has to be treated the same as any other meat
US farmers are required by US law to keep records of all medications they use on their livestock. The penalty fines are pretty severe if deep tissue tests reveal misuse
None of my UK horses has a single entry on their passports for medications used because none of them are 'allowed' for slaughter for human consumption. Only horses intended to end up on a plate will need to have records made.
If you use horse meat for food in the US you will still have to conform with exactly the same standards of record keeping that apply to other US livestock. You can check these on the FDA website. Its really clear.
So far horses have been considered as a pet animal and not a farm animal
I wont even start to tell you that no residue tests have ever been done on horses fed on crops sprayed with any chemicals - something that all crop protection chemical companies have to do - but its a worldwide (not just EU) requirement for all other livestock.
That's going to be the next thing on the list now that horses are being reclassified as meat for human consumption
     
    12-10-2012, 06:08 PM
  #66
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I'm afraid the US definition of freedom is no different to the UK one. I've lived here for 5 years now and see no difference at all...
Yes, but you live in Connecticut. It is part of the liberal NE stronghold, matched by California on the other side of the country. Folks living in fly-over country often take a different view, which is why we aren't a completely socialist country by now.

"US farmers are required by US law to keep records of all medications they use on their livestock."

Let's just say I'm skeptical. Maybe once they hit a feed yard, but I'd be surprised if folks grazing cattle in the west track every shot they give. Still, I've been wrong before...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...-tracking.html
     
    12-10-2012, 06:46 PM
  #67
Super Moderator
I based my understanding of US farm record keeping on several reports including this one from the FDA website
Of course people will be non compliant, they see it as a risk worth taking but if found negligent I'm not sure if it is as the penalties seem pretty high
If we gave antibiotics to the dairy cows their milk had to be thrown away. If it went into the bulk tank by accident and was picked up on a test you lost all that milk plus a big fine so never worth the risk as it also cost you your reputation
As far as the livestock tracing it seems that they eventually decided to accept various forms of ID - branding, ear tagging etc.
The horse passport thing is not as much to control what drugs you give if you allow them into the food chain but to know who they belong too if they get tested positive. Its a risk some people will be willing to take I'm sure as there's a big difference between a one off owner of a horse and a cattle rancher with a hug herd who's livelihood depends on it
It was interesting to see that the US and India were the only countries that didnt have a traceability programme for livestock on the 2011 report you linked.
I'm trying to put my thoughts, interpretations and opinions based on facts and not my own personal arguments based on what I think should happen/not happen
bsms - You and Cherie would both like the US to eat horse meat - I don't have a problem with that
Corporal says that will never happen in a million years as sensitivities on this are too high - I think she's probably right yet for some reason I felt as if I was getting bashed by her for suggesting it be used for pet food.
     
    12-10-2012, 11:41 PM
  #68
Banned
Jaydee thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was either without horses or already living in the US by the time the passport requirements were introduced (not sure when that happened).

I appreciate the input you are able to give about how it worked in the UK.
jaydee likes this.
     

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