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how many people can feel it ?

This is a discussion on how many people can feel it ? within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        08-28-2012, 04:33 PM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oh vair oh    
    Feel is very important for pattern classes, or even showing rail classes. I need to know where that back foot is, if the hock is under, if the hip is tilted, if the barrel is lifted, if the shoulder is lifted, if the neck is relaxed, just for a successful and seamless lope off from the walk. It can be the difference between an uncollected, head-bobbed, step into the lope, and a nice, collected, effortless departure.

    I also want to be able to manipulate each part of the body with a tiny change of my leg. I want to be able to lift the ribcage and move it over, I want to be able to lift and move the shoulder, and then I want to lift and move the hip. Then I want to do multiple combinations at the same time...
    Those who want to show or perform for judges need to learn this stuff. Those who don't, don't.

    I have no desire to tell my horse where to put her feet. In fact, I usually spend some time on the trail reminding her to watch HER feet, because SHE is the one who knows how the ground feels as her foot touches it. I have no interest in moving her ribcage. I consider my horse to be my independent PARTNER, not my puppet.

    If that sounds harsh, it isn't meant to be. Folks can do whatever they want with their horses. If they are having fun & their horses are healthy and happy, then I am happy for them both!

    I do object to the idea that trying to manipulate my horse's body is a higher form of riding. The part of riding that fascinates me and that has motivated me to ride is when my mare CHOOSES to loan her body to me, or independently does something to further OUR goals.

    It is like the time I tried to get my youngest to canter on Trooper. She was giving the right signals, but Trooper would NOT canter. Period. When she dismounted, she admitted she wasn't comfortable with cantering and was glad that Trooper disobeyed her. The riding instructor and I both believe the opposite happened - that Trooper DID obey - obeying her desires while ignoring her physical cues. I think the then 13 year old girl and her horse achieved a pretty high level of riding that day, with the horse understanding the young girl better than her Dad or instructor did.

    Most riders have stories like that.

    That is what I liked about tinyliny's post: "What is often amazing to me is that people are so unaware of where their horse's THOUGHT is". When I ride Mia, I am constantly aware of her feelings. Her enthusiasm, fear, energy, concerns - she constantly feeds those to me. I don't know how. But if I don't feed her something in return, she'll go bonkers with fear. She NEEDS to know I'm listening to her, and that I respect her feelings. In return, she will give me everything she has. Up to and including when she takes 5-6 steps back and pleads with me to get off her and tell her she is OK.

    Those are not examples of high level competitive riding, but those are the moments that make me want to ride. Or, as the case may be, to dismount, let her put her head against my chest, listen to me whisper into her ear, and then lead her someplace she doesn't have the courage to face on her own. That is when I feel like I'm getting somewhere as a rider...
    FlyGap, kait18, doubleopi and 2 others like this.
         
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        08-28-2012, 04:42 PM
      #22
    Yearling
    Your horse tells you a lot, you just have to listen.
         
        08-28-2012, 04:51 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    I can feel everything on my horse...the slightest difference haha. But that's just me. Alot of it at lest imo is because I used to ride bareback so much that I just started to "feel" more and it just stuck when I rode with a saddle I guess
    FlyGap and kait18 like this.
         
        08-28-2012, 05:17 PM
      #24
    Foal
    Thanks Kait and CopperHead, I'll try that. I think I can feel if the horse is tense, like sometimes the horse I'm riding wants to go really fast and when I try and slow them down they get really awkward with their movements because I'm not letting them go.

    I suppose it helps if you ride the same horse every time you ride as well, because I have to spend a bit of time getting used to the horses movements if I'm on a horse I haven't ridden before.
    kait18 likes this.
         
        08-28-2012, 05:20 PM
      #25
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsms    
    Those who want to show or perform for judges need to learn this stuff. Those who don't, don't.

    I have no desire to tell my horse where to put her feet. In fact, I usually spend some time on the trail reminding her to watch HER feet, because SHE is the one who knows how the ground feels as her foot touches it. I have no interest in moving her ribcage. I consider my horse to be my independent PARTNER, not my puppet.

    If that sounds harsh, it isn't meant to be. Folks can do whatever they want with their horses. If they are having fun & their horses are healthy and happy, then I am happy for them both!

    I do object to the idea that trying to manipulate my horse's body is a higher form of riding. The part of riding that fascinates me and that has motivated me to ride is when my mare CHOOSES to loan her body to me, or independently does something to further OUR goals.

    It is like the time I tried to get my youngest to canter on Trooper. She was giving the right signals, but Trooper would NOT canter. Period. When she dismounted, she admitted she wasn't comfortable with cantering and was glad that Trooper disobeyed her. The riding instructor and I both believe the opposite happened - that Trooper DID obey - obeying her desires while ignoring her physical cues. I think the then 13 year old girl and her horse achieved a pretty high level of riding that day, with the horse understanding the young girl better than her Dad or instructor did.

    Most riders have stories like that.

    That is what I liked about tinyliny's post: "What is often amazing to me is that people are so unaware of where their horse's THOUGHT is". When I ride Mia, I am constantly aware of her feelings. Her enthusiasm, fear, energy, concerns - she constantly feeds those to me. I don't know how. But if I don't feed her something in return, she'll go bonkers with fear. She NEEDS to know I'm listening to her, and that I respect her feelings. In return, she will give me everything she has. Up to and including when she takes 5-6 steps back and pleads with me to get off her and tell her she is OK.

    Those are not examples of high level competitive riding, but those are the moments that make me want to ride. Or, as the case may be, to dismount, let her put her head against my chest, listen to me whisper into her ear, and then lead her someplace she doesn't have the courage to face on her own. That is when I feel like I'm getting somewhere as a rider...

    I did the training where you tell them where to put their feet, and give them their next move. Its true that in order to get them to do this, you need a partner in crime. If the horse isn't with you, you aren't getting that next step you asked for.

    I do see what you're talking about though. I learned how to ride and train horses like this, and then used what I learned to train bad horses into good when that partnership was found.

    And now that I'm not training, I just want to have fun.

    My mare needs a lot of serious retraining, so I do go back to the "Left foot here, ribcage there" type of riding. She needs balancing work and definitely needs work on her departs and transitions, as well as her steering. This will come with time, balance and practice. However, I'm not training her for anyone else but myself. So when she finds that balance and learns how to carry herself, we're just going out to have fun and chase some cows. No more training higher than that, no more constant frame (heck, she hardly goes in a frame right now unless she's particularly frisky...and I ALWAYS made my horses move in a frame). We're just going to go have fun. Once she learns her job, I'm leaving her job to her, and we'll work together to complish it.
    kait18 likes this.
         
        08-28-2012, 05:37 PM
      #26
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsms    
    Those who want to show or perform for judges need to learn this stuff. Those who don't, don't.

    ...
    With all due respect, I totally disagree. I don't show. I don't perform. I still want to excel my horsemanship in order to effectively communicate with the horse I am riding. Knowing how the horse's body is positioned, where it is in the context of a stride, allows me to refine my aids. The clearer signal I can send my horse, the better they respond. Period. That works on the trail in front of a rock or in the arena in front of a judge.

    I want the horse I am riding to be the best it can be. I want to be the best horseman I can be. Whether someone is watching us or not.
    Dressage10135, Cinder and boots like this.
         
        08-28-2012, 06:03 PM
      #27
    Green Broke
    To feel where my horse's feet are, to get the timing to cue for the most effortless stops, lead changes, transitions... I had to develop that skill.

    I don't show, but like Sahara says, it's what I do to improve my horsemanship.
         
        08-28-2012, 06:13 PM
      #28
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sahara    
    With all due respect, I totally disagree....I still want to excel my horsemanship in order to effectively communicate with the horse I am riding...
    If you define being the best horseman you can be as being able and willing to tell it where to put its ribcage...have a nut.

    "That works on the trail in front of a rock or in the arena in front of a judge."

    You can do so. I want my horse to recognize a rock, and to be able to figure out the best way to get us past the rock. We have thousands of rocks. Some will move under pressure, and others will not. I'll let the one who can feel the rock decide if the rock is a factor.

    There are rocks I can't see but that affect her balance:



    Thus, I believe horsemanship, for me, is developing a two-way trust that says BOTH of us make inputs. I've gone jogging down the wash in the above picture. I wouldn't want anyone telling me where to put my feet as I go thru this wash - so why should I tell my horse?

    I can watch a dressage video in awe of what the horse and rider are doing, yet have no desire to imitate them. I don't consider that higher riding. I consider it a different sort of riding that some riders and horses love. More power to them. But when my horse perceives my wishes and tries to carry them out, THAT is also a type of good horsemanship - one well suited for my purposes.

    In the example I gave earlier, our Appy ignored the physical cues and did what my daughter wanted. I don't know what went on for communication between them, but I know he's the only horse she wants to ride because she trusts him. And when I look back and see Trooper and my daughter coming down the trail with her bellowing out Jimmy Buffet songs...I trust him too.

    Cinder, FlyGap and doubleopi like this.
         
        08-28-2012, 06:21 PM
      #29
    Yearling
    Well, I think you misinterpreted my point about the rock, anyway.........

    I am glad we can all enjoy our horses, no matter how we ride/communicate with them. That is, afterall, the whole point.
    bsms likes this.
         
        08-28-2012, 06:32 PM
      #30
    Trained
    I misinterpret a lot of things...on any given day, my wife could give you a long list!
         

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