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I am so torn,

2K views 15 replies 5 participants last post by  Saskia 
#1 ·
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/newbie-needing-some-help-35481/ -- Follow up

I really like this horse, but IDK if he is too much for me. I don't know what is considered green, or broke, because so many people consider it differently. My trainer puts me on him and says he will be work, and that I'm a confident rider that can handle him. He's 5-6 ish, and hasn't been ridden in years. I know NOTHING about training a horse, and can only afford lessons on him, not board, expenses, AND training.

I'm going to get a video of us riding tomorrow, will you guys tell me what you think about us? How far along he looks, and what kind of horse I look capable of? I ride tomorrow at 2:30 pm, so I'll have a video up around 5:00 pm.

I've always heard green on green is terrible---but what is green?! I would call myself a VERY confident intermediate rider, I am not the best, but I know what I'm doing. I have no idea what to call him, some days he is great some he isn't.

I want my first horse, and I love him, but my heart is torn on if this is it or not.
 
#3 ·
So what are you saying?

If you buy him you will not be able to afford to keep having lessons with your instructor?

To me, green is unexperienced in whatever the relevent things is.

You are inexperienced in training so I would say that yes you are green. Also, riding trained riding school horses and riding in a controlled environment is different to riding an untrained green horse in other circumstances. I'd ridden for about 3 years before I got my first horse and I think I learnt more riding that horse in 2 months than I had learnt in the three years. Riding schools generally (not always) tend to teach sort of the theory of riding. Like you learn how to sit on a horse and turn and learn what the aids are, but the minute you are put on a horse that doesn't automatically do all these things the student isn't much more than a beginner.

Is the nature of riding schools, and learning, and there is nothing wrong with it. Although if you are taking on a green horse that needs training then that could be dangerous. Its not just that either, but having a horse that you are not compatible with, or that you feel "helpless" (like you can't train it, or ride it out or do anything but just go around) is not fun. You very quickly get over that and then are stuck with a not so good and expensive situation.

I would not recommend a young, untrained horse for someones first horse even if they had been riding for years. Its a lot of work but there are people with good horses and generally good access to instructors or other knowledge sources that make it work.

On the other side, you have been riding this horse. You know it, and you know how you feel on it. Your instructor thinks you are capable of riding him as well. If you own this horse though you might want to do more than riding around. If you all you know is basic riding, maybe basic jumping or basic bending or whatever you were into then you won't be capable of teaching a horse what you do not know. I've seen so many parents buy a young, inexperienced kid a young horse with the notion that they can "learn together" but it rarely works out well.

It would be so much easier for you, and probably more fun, to get a horse that has experience in the discipline you want to enter. That way you could learn without having to teach the horse, and if you screwed up sometimes it wouldn't be so bad, because the horse would know what to do. That is the beauty of a trained horse.

Its up to you. If you love him that much get him but think about the opportunities you could be giving up if you were to get a well trained, reliable and competitive horse.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I want to do barrels and pole bending. Yes I can afford lessons on this horse and buy him, but I can't afford to send him off to a "trainer."

Maybe I am over reacting, this horse does not buck, rear, spook at anything, or bolt. He is totally fine getting tacked up and is a little clumsy on the lead, but a sweet horse. When I say green... I mean he doesn't really understad leg cues, he understands walk trot canter, but not any specific discipline. EX: I could have the reins sitting on my lap and day dreaming, and he would walk calmly until asked to do more. He just doesn't KNOW what a leg cue is, do I make sense??

I totally see what you are saying about the trained horse. I just feel as if I have no where else to go if I don't find something to work on/with... I know how to ride, how many times can I walk, trot, canter in a round pen until I can find my own horse to actually do something with? It's complicated and frustrating.
 
#5 · (Edited)
i learnt to ride on very green & very spooky ponies from the age of 6 to the age of 11 (2 of which we owned and then sold on)
not my mum's fault - they're the ones i chose !

i fell off numerous times and got scared every now and again, but all of those little ponies that i learned on & schooled were then sold on to little girls who learned to ride on perfect ponies and had a lots of fun with them, and i loved the feeling that i'd done all of that

some people disagree with it, but i'm a good rider because of the choices i made,
i haven't got a perfect position (i slouch because i sit too relaxed), but personally i think it's better to experience horses like that because i feel it makes you a more experienced rider - because you have dealt with more problems.
You can only go so far with schoolmasters, and i think it would be a good opportunity for you.
If your instructor thinks you're ready for him then i'd go for it !
 
#6 ·
He doesn't sound like a bad horse, and if your instructor has experience training and will help you train the horse I guess its not as bad as it could be. He seems pretty nice, and you really like him.

As far as Hollybee says, I agree to an extent. My first horse was an ex polocrosse pony, he was in his teens but he basically no flatwork/dressage/jumping experience and he was a bit of a nutter. He was way beyond my experience level - which had just been two lessons a week at a riding school. He would spook and shy and everything at first, and I would fall of. He would refuse basically every jump that we went near and at first I fell of. I got thrown into barrels and stuff, which hurt. My shoulder is actually still ******ed from one of those barrel hitting episodes - there was a very impressive dent though.

The point is eventually I stopped falling of. I stuck on, I learnt when to pull the head up, I learnt how to move with this, and I learnt to keep my heels down. He injured himself, and while he was out I rode peoples horses who needed exercise, a crazy TB who was impossible and others. I learnt to actually ride a horse, to stay on and you know, not to die. I'm a much better rider for that today.

Still, there were so many times when I was at a show and my horse was spooking at the showjumps (we didn't have real jumps were we kept him) or at the white tape of the dressage arena, or just when he wouldn't flex, or wouldn't pay attention. And I looked at pretty all the other kids with their expensive, shiny, trained horses who were so easy to ride. They just got on and their horse did everything they asked. I knew these kids, I knew that was how they bought their horses, I knew they had new leather saddles while I had a synthetic, and they had floated out where I had ridden. I wanted so much to just be able to ride my horse, and compete without having to fight, or train, or say just say it was better than last time.

Yes, after experience and riding and training we got better, we won things and stuff, but by then I was ready to move onto my next horse. He was an "official" showjumper but was terrified of cattle. Although I loved at the end of a gymkana with PC or something we'd get to the sporting and all these kids would ride out on their 15hand QH or stockies in there sporting tack and i'd always beat them at barrel racing on my 16.1hand TB with a dressage saddle. I think they hated me. That horse could really turn.

Sorry i'm a terrible rambler - what I am getting is that its about what you want. Do you want to get somewhere or do you want to work on something? Do you want to learn about and get better at competing in bending and such, or do you want to learn about training?

I think with your instructors guidance and him being an alright horse you'll be okay, but I think you'll have a lot of work ahead of you.
 
#7 ·
I would keep in mind that confident is not the same thing as skilled. Are you comfortable on him? Can you control him and does he listen to you? Do you know what to do if he misbehaves or develops a bad habit?

As long as he has a quiet mind and is willing to learn and behave, I think you would be okay. It's good that you'll be working with a trainer, because I would strongly discourage you from buying an inexperienced horse if you weren't. Talk to your trainer about it. Ask her if she thinks you're ready to handle a greenie.
 
#8 ·
I'm not trying to learn how to train, that isn't my goal, but I do want to learn bending, flexing, etc. with him. Thank you Hollybee. Your post was very helpful!

Someone could shoot a gun off this horse. He just doesn't spook at anything. I am confident and I am skilled, I've ridden for about 10-11 years, had my share of falls and learning experiences. I can handle him when we ride, he is always a little friskier at first but after a couple rotations he is much better. He listens to me, but I will admit, at first he sees what he can get away with.

I was TOTALLY comfortable with him before I got on here and read up about leg cues, bending, flexing, and all sorts of specific training he DOESNT have and I have no idea how to give him, I guess I call him green because he isn't trained in any discipline. When actually, he is very rideable. He definitely is not a beginner horse by any means, but I don't feel scared when I'm on him.

I'll get the video today and we'll see how good me and him look LOL. Watch me look aweful after saying I am skilled rider!
 
#9 ·
I am a little concerned that you said you would be unable to afford board or expenses. Do you mean horse expenses (shoes, feed, hay, etc)? If that's what you meant, then you shouldn't by this horse.
 
#11 ·
Okay, I got the videos. The one of us cantering shows a little bit of his mind set at the end. I know I'm pretty bouncy, but he's kind of rough and I'm still getting adjusted. I just want opinions on the horse... and I guess me too, but more so Toughy





& in the last one, I'm know I'm pulling on his mouth pretty good there at the end but he just would NOT stop. I'd pull back, and he'd pull his head forward, making it worse for himself. He's a weird horse.

EDIT: Ignore the people talking in the background, just turn the sound off. The girl recording was answering a phone call :)
 
#12 ·
One thing I am concerned about is that horses bit (from my little youtub box it looked like one of those western bits with the long things) - i'm not a western rider but I was under the impression that they were meant to be ridden without, or with minimal, contact. For a young horse coming into work and a rider inexperienced at riding a horse like it I would use a snaffle.

If you pull against the reins to stop them they often lean against the pull and don't stop - which is why continuous pulling does not work. Half halts, strong seat and legs usually work just as well. If the horse refuses to stop instead of just pulling (which is just going to harden his mouth and teach him to pull) I would turn him in a small circle on an open rein. Not like a really small one - maybe 15 metres, and then sit back and squeeze on the reins and use your seat and give the aids to stop (which he is much likely to listen to when he is unable to just pull and run) and if he still doesn't slowly spiral in.

One of my horses used to lean when I tried to pull him when we were out so when I felt he was just leaning against I would just suddenly give him heaps of head, he would often lose his balance temporarily, but then I could pull him up. Not saying you should do this with this horse but pulling doesn't really slow them down.
 
#13 ·
Thank you for the reply! The bridle isn't mine, it's Erin's. However, I am looking at head stalls and was just about to make a topic about bits. Any specific kind of snaffle I should get him?

I can't seem to understand WHY he won't stop though. Is it because he gets so worked up and excited? And when you say use my legs, as in, push against his sides?

How did we look together? *sheepish face* :)
 
#14 ·
will you be having lessons on him with your instructor ?
if so the leg cues, bending, flexing etc . . . will come in time, after all - that's what instructors are for =]

as for the videos, he looks lovely =D i can see what you mean about he can walk, trot and canter but isn't trained in a specific discipline - but that's the most fun part !!

you two look fine together and with some training & bonding you'll be great together !!

p.s. he's also very pretty which always helps ! haha
 
#15 ·
oh yes, for the snaffle i'd go for something loose ring with either a french link or a lozenge, obviously, you might have to try a few different bits to see which one he goes best in

my youngster has just come out of a full cheeck snaffle with a lozenge and has now got a loose ring with the same mouth piece , a bit like this :



i usually go for Dorado bits (similar to a lot of others on the market nowadays, here is a little description i found on a website - Dorado is a rust free metal, nickel-free alloy with a high copper content which gives a warmer feel and stimulates salivation) - just as an example

hope all of my ramblings help haha
 
#16 ·
I use a KK training bit which is basically the bit that Hollybee showed you, I generally use plain metals but thats just because of what I am used to.

If you get nervous when he runs of and you clamp on or tense up he could think that you want him to run on.

Also, stopping when pressure is applied to the mouth is a trained response, so it could just be that he doesn't quite understand. Either way, letting him run on is not a good option.

Also, I don't know what you do generally, but just riding around an area that big isn't going to do much. Its just like riding out but in an enclosed space. I would work on 20 - 30 metre circles, with a lot of transitions. Start with the walk/halt ones and get it so that when you sit back, half halt and then give you cue for halt he stops, there shouldn't be pulling or fighting or running on. Get it going on the ground if he doesn't respond straight up. Then get into walk/trot and trot/halt, it is important that he learns to accept basic aids and the bit before continuing on to further training. Also, serpentines, little circles, lots of bending and flexing is good as well. This will get him supple as well as thinking.

Really consider changing the bit though. He doesn't need anything harsh and it can ruin a horse.
 
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