I Can't Make This Desicion on My Own...
 
 

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I Can't Make This Desicion on My Own...

This is a discussion on I Can't Make This Desicion on My Own... within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • +SOUND UNBROKE HORSES
  • Are you better off buying a shetland pony or a horse? which is cheaper?

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    08-26-2012, 12:36 PM
  #1
Yearling
Exclamation I Can't Make This Desicion on My Own...

Hello HorseForum :)

You guys have been such great help before, and I need it now more than ever. This is such a hard desicion, and one I really don't want to make. But I don't know ...

First of all, I've probabbly got hopeless dreams running around, and please don't be afraid to tell me if I am. We'll start with the actual question, then why I'm wondering about this myself.

I'm thinking about leasing out Diamond.

Diamond is my 14hh Arab mare that I do love. She is spunky, full of personality, and sweet. She loves to jump, and has amazing form to do it. I am currently using her for Jumpers, because she turns on a dime, but she also has some bare bone Dressage in her, and has done Hunters before, but she is a little quick. Plus, I'm 5'6, and I look a little big on her, so Hunter judges don't like the picture.

I believe that with an intermediate/advanced rider, she could be slowed down, and taught whatever anybody would want to do. She'd be perfect for Eventing. Good Dressage, braver than any horse I've met, and quick about it. She's 14 going on 5, and is ready to do anything.

She is currently half pasture puff. She only gets worked a few times a month, because I am currently working with Cowboy, and am too big for the pretty girl. I hate seeing her like this. She loves the work, but we just aren't clicking. She wants to go one way, I want to go another. And I feel it's not fair to her. Plus, after I get her to the point to where she is where I want, she's too little for me. I can't show her anyway.

I want her to be worked, and I want her to be shown. Neither of which is happening. This makes me think she might just be happier leased to a little girl who will love her, and love to ride her. A more petite girl. Now this means I have a stall open. Here's what I want to do with it -

I want to take in small, unbroke ponies (as in a max of 12h) and train them to resell. I just think that it would be a wonderful experiance, and yes, I have help. I would break them to ride, and ground driving. I don't have a cart, can't afford it. I figured I would take ponies in for about 600 bucks, (I have found them) and sell them for around 1k. Make money? Not much. Maybe a hundred bucks after food. But plus what we bring in with Diamond, I think we could afford it. The point is, I think I could benefit from it. Greatly.

So ... am I being logical? Could I do it? If yes, I need some help learning about leasing. But we'll cross that bridge when and if we get there.

Thank You all so much for your help :) You guys are great!!
     
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    08-26-2012, 12:44 PM
  #2
Foal
Holy smokes!! Unbroke ponies for $600???? So glad I don't live where you do! We can buy unbroke ponies for $15-60 here at the sale! I just bought a green broke 3 yr old around 12 h for $60. Solid broke ponies go for the $600.... Just commenting, no real pros or cons. I think you could do it, but only if your turn around time is short.
     
    08-26-2012, 12:46 PM
  #3
Trained
I do not see any problem with leasing out your Arab to someone who can enjoy all she has to offer. People "outgrow" horses one way or the other all the time. So long as the lease agreement is sound and everyone is aware of the terms, it can work out very well.

As for the buying and reselling... how old are you? Do you have any experience with driving and more importantly, training to drive? Is there even a market for driving ponies in your area? Honestly, I don't think going this route is wise. You don't even have a cart to train them with. If your plan is to train a few and take the profit to buy a cart, you are [excuse the pun] putting the cart before the horse. I cannot imagine many people will be interested in purchasing a $1000 pony who hasn't even been hooked up to a cart. Just my two cents.
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    08-26-2012, 01:01 PM
  #4
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by riccil0ve    
how old are you?
I thank you for your two cents, first of all :) I am not comfortable sharing my exact age over the internet, but let's say I am of age to drive.

Quote:
Do you have any experience with driving and more importantly, training to drive? Is there even a market for driving ponies in your area?
I do have experiance with driving. I showed a molly mule in driving for about a year that was not my own. As for training to drive, I have trained a 9hh shetland to drive before. We ended up giving him away - he was given to us very neglected, we just brought him back, taught him how to drive. Planned on keeping him, but he hated the big horses and picked on them badly. As in bite gashes. So he left, we disclosed that info.
That said, there is a market for driving ponies. It's small, but there. I was really more looking into the riding aspect, though. I wasn't sure about a large horse - I don't know if we could afford the bigger horses. I'll look at them though. Let's just go with 'unbroke horses' that I'm looking for.

Quote:
Honestly, I don't think going this route is wise. You don't even have a cart to train them with. If your plan is to train a few and take the profit to buy a cart, you are [excuse the pun] putting the cart before the horse. I cannot imagine many people will be interested in purchasing a $1000 pony who hasn't even been hooked up to a cart. Just my two cents.
I completely understand where you are coming from. And I thank you for sharing :) Could we possibly change the info? I was more focused on training the horses to ride. We can go ahead and call them horses. I may decide to go against the pony aspect. I would like to take in horses that are a little more hunter than Diamond. And there is a huge (and I mean huge) Hunter market. I'm right next to Lexington. People would pay 1000 for a hunter that has done no showing, and barely jumped 2' - as long as he has potential.
     
    08-26-2012, 01:11 PM
  #5
Trained
1000 is a very small number, it probably wont cover the expenses of owning this untrained horse/pony for multiple months, depending on feed/shoes/taking it to shows/ etc.

You would be better off finding people with ponies/horses who want them trained and/or sold and having them pay you.

I do think its a good idea to lease out your arab though.
     
    08-26-2012, 01:16 PM
  #6
Trained
That is more plausible. It is easy to find inexpensive horses at auction. Whether you the talent or not to have a quick turnaround and make a good horse, I don't know, but I do hope for the sake of yourself and the horses you purchase, that you do not over-horse yourself. Be realistic about what you can do, what you can work with, what you cannot do, what vices are over your head, etc. Pride is a hard thing to swallow, but I do think if you stay in your level and don't bite off more than you can chew, you have a chance of making this work. That is assuming you are a good rider in the first place. Just be aware of your limitations, ask for help when you need it, and buy smart.

ETA- The problem with training horses for clients is legalities. If the OP is not a legal adult, it will be even more of a problem. The OP's barn will have to be okay with her training out of it, the owner will have to be okay with the barn, as well as take a young trainer seriously. You run into problems if the horse gets hurt, if the horse colics, if the owner is dissatisfied with the training. Obviously, training is a thriving operation, but at this point, I think it would be better to start buying an auction horse and see what she can make of it. It will give a young trainer experience, as well as a testimonial from the horse's next owner. After the OP can prove herself with a few auction horses, I believe she will make a much better job of it being hired by clients.
     
    08-26-2012, 01:18 PM
  #7
Yearling
Gypsy-

Thank you for your response :)
I honestly hadn't thought about that! I do worry though - would people even consider offering a baby green horse to a minor for training? That would be pretty ideal though. Any idea how I would go about that?

Okay, so everyone is pretty much saying leasing Diamond out wouldn't be a bad idea. So that brings up this question -

What are essential things to put in a Lease contract? How do you make a contract? Any legal matters that must be taken? Any leasing experiances I should learn from? If I need to make a new thread for that, please let me know. Thanks!
     
    08-26-2012, 01:27 PM
  #8
Trained
Since you posted while I was editing, I just want to let you know there is more to my last post in case you missed it.

I don't have experience leasing, I just know there is more to it than someone paying you to ride your horse three times a week. There are other members who can offer you advice though. I would suggest another thread asking how to write a lease. Would you consider selling your Arab to someone if the lease was going well? Just curious.

ETA - I would start with green horses before you start working with babies/unbroken horses. Give a horse some miles and finesse, and slowly work your way into more difficult territory. The only way to profit is to be efficient and end with a good horse. At this point, I am doubtful you are ready to take an unstarted 2 year old and break it out in 30 days. Remember what I said about being realistic about your current abilities.
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    08-26-2012, 01:35 PM
  #9
Yearling
Just went up and saw your other post, riccilove :)

Thank you for the information :) I was just looking around, though, and I was more right - the bigger the horse, the higher the cost. I cannot find an unbroke horse at all. Let's just say the cheapest horse I could find was one that was jumping <2ft, with basic groundwork. He was all of 1 thousand bucks. So I think I'm going to be forced into large ponies. I have found a CUTE unbroke 12hh pony for 450. That's the best I could find.

No auctions in the area, unfortunatly. All are at the least an hour and a half away, so I am leaning on craigslist. EquineNow and other good sites have too many nice horses )lol :p( so I'm just sticking to CL. Cheaper, too. I'll get a new thread for writing a lease.

As for your question - At this point, I would absaloutly refuse selling completely at all costs. I could not imagine selling her. I and my parents love her too much.
     
    08-26-2012, 02:03 PM
  #10
Trained
In this economy I wouldn't even consider leasing a horse for an off site lease. I've seen too many who have done that and gotten back a very starved or dead horse. It can be a horror story. On site, ok, because then you can see the horse every day and if something changes for the bad you know to step in. Just my 2 cents on the lease thing.

At 14, I seriously doubt your mare has any 'slow down' in her, and probably won't until she's 20. Some horses just like to go fast, so I'd look for an eventer for her.

The 'turn 'em around for profit' thing has worked well in the past and may work well again. The problem with it right now is, there isn't much of a market for the $1,000 barely broke/trained horse. Most parents want 'kid safe' ponies and one that you buy for $500 appx, and turn around for $1000 is not going to have but maybe 60 days on it, if that, if you expect to remain profitable. Not a child horse at all.

It sounds like you're a teen living at home with mom & dad, and I encourage you to do that for several more years, if you can! The economy is bad and I think it's not done getting worse yet, so buying and selling horses is pretty risky business right now. I can't even begin to list the small Arabian breeder/trainers out there who are downsizing and getting out of the horse business as sole income in order to better survive the economic downturns we all see coming.

So my long term advice would be to on site lease your mare if you feel you must, otherwise just ride her for fun. At this point, don't take in anything that eats. I'm not saying don't do it at all, just wait a few years to see if things settle down $$$-wise for this country. Horses/ponies are a luxury and one of the first things to go when things get bad. I'm seeing 500 plus head go through our local auction every 2 weeks. Not good!
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buying, leasing, reselling, training

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