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I found out my horse was an unrideable rodeo horse

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        12-22-2013, 02:40 PM
      #61
    Trained
    I think the link provided by updownrider would destroy any chance of winning anything in court. I've got a mare who would be a 'nightmare' if I worked with her like that. I think the advice you were given on that thread (including mine) could have helped you.
         
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        12-22-2013, 03:04 PM
      #62
    Super Moderator
    The OP wasn't told that the horse had been deemed unrideable when she bought it - that is something she's found out since.
    She was lied too by the seller who knew the horse has issues but didn't disclose them - and lots of things don't show up on PPE's so sometimes having one won't help
    I've seen videos of the OP riding this horse when she first began working her and she was doing really well with her - she's a very good young horsewoman -no doubt some old injury has resurfaced to cause the problems that have now arisen
    At least she's doing the responsible thing and not selling her on
         
        12-22-2013, 04:03 PM
      #63
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OliviaMyee    
    I got the horse a chiropractic vet who did acupuncture and also got the horse many massages, from a qaulified myotherapist. The vet checked my saddle to and said it was fine.

    She is goimg to suffer for what she did to me regardless if she can't get in trouble. Ill ruin her reputation.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    1) When have vets ever been saddle fitters?

    2) I'd look up "libel", "defamation", and "slander".
    franknbeans and goodhrs like this.
         
        12-22-2013, 04:03 PM
      #64
    Yearling
    Who is to say the previous owner was withholding information? It's very possible that once she bought her as an 'unridable broodmare' she retrained her to ride. I think that situation is more likely than the owner having lied, the horse is great for five months, then mysteriously becomes a crazy bronc.

    I bought a mare whose owners said she wasn't rideable because she would bolt and rear. Three months after having her she was the sweetest horse I'd ever owned. But, she was very sensitive. She needed a rider who was confident and very clear with cues otherwise she'd get confused and stressed out.

    This mare looks to be very sweet. I think she's rideable, but she needs a confident rider which I don't believe you are. It makes me very sad that she is being PTS based on the fact that you can't ride her. If I were closer I'd come pick her up myself.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    bsms and EliRose like this.
         
        12-22-2013, 04:19 PM
      #65
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    The OP wasn't told that the horse had been deemed unrideable when she bought it - that is something she's found out since.
    She was lied too by the seller who knew the horse has issues but didn't disclose them - and lots of things don't show up on PPE's so sometimes having one won't help
    I've seen videos of the OP riding this horse when she first began working her and she was doing really well with her - she's a very good young horsewoman -no doubt some old injury has resurfaced to cause the problems that have now arisen
    At least she's doing the responsible thing and not selling her on
    Don't get this post - clearly the mare is ridable as the OP has videos of herself riding the mare (wrapped in a tarp, no less). Mare is sound in the video, looks comfortable at the walk and the trot, and is listening to her handler. I see no signs of unsoundness, either physical or mental.

    PPE is the responsibility of the prospective buyer - she didn't get one so this is irrelevant. Any speculation on an old injury is just that, SPECULATION.

    A "very good young horsewoman" (VGYH) doesn't usually buy a horse after being led around on it bareback while it wears a rope halter. A VGYH doesn't usually buy a horse, knowing it's a project, without a PPE or having it looked over by a trainer, then hop on wearing a tarp - then, when it rears, sometime later, decide its unridable and should be put down, AFTER said VGYH goes on public forums saying she's going to ruin the seller's reputation, sue her, and make her life miserable.

    Add to this she's owned the horse for at least five months, and has posted questionable "bonding" videos, which - If I was the seller - would point out that any bad behavior owner has experienced could well be due to the handling practices of current owner.

    Last, any horse can be dangerous. Any horse can have a rearing episode, or buck, given the right circumstances. It doesn't mean the horse cannot have a good future, be resold, or should be condemned to die. This VGYH was warned, by the seller, from the beginning, she was not a good fit for this mare. She bought it anyway. OP doesn't have a defensible postition.
    updownrider, bsms, boots and 2 others like this.
         
        12-22-2013, 04:23 PM
      #66
    Trained
    She just got scared of the horse when it acted up. She probably jerked the bit and the horse reared a little bit and scared the child half to death. I seriously doubt that her dad is going to take a complete financial loss on the horse just because she is mad. He will most likely sell the horse if she doesn't want it.
         
        12-22-2013, 06:33 PM
      #67
    Yearling
    I agree it sounds more like the horse had an episode or two and scared the op after horse was given a break....
    However, op, your attitude toward the woman who sold you the horse is just wrong.

    Get your big girl pants back on....ground work ground work ground work, and when your confidence Is back, get on and walk. Don't blame the horse, she's an animal doing what feels right to her. Be the HUMAN, use your brain, and ride.
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        12-22-2013, 09:01 PM
      #68
    Super Moderator
    OP, you said a trainer tried to work with your mare and could not make progress?
         
        12-22-2013, 10:33 PM
      #69
    Weanling
    I have seen what happens when an inexperienced rider/owner goes out and buys an animal with out counsel or with out a knowlegeable person going with them to check out the horse. I wish my last student had asked me to check out the recent puchase she had made. I saw red flag issues right off (after the fact) that the student just was not expereinced or knowlegable to see her self. Not the horse sellers fault.

    Another thing.........get it in writing. If its not documented then it does not exsist. In t his day and age hear say is irrelevant and "trust" cannot be easily tossed about. There are horse traders and there are horse sales consigners/brokers (this includes private independant sales) . Both are to be warry about but traders/dealers I pay closer attention to. Thier livelyhood depends on buying cheap and making a profit as quick as they can. Many (note that I am not saying ALL) buy from auctions. Many don't know the horse's history and many make up one. They also know when a "sucker commeths a'callin". Many traders/dealers deal with horses but might still be unknowleged themselves in the particulars (ie aging the horse via teeth, proper nutrition etc.) So it can be a crap shoot. Many don't care and just want a turn around, a quick sale and a quick buck. The less investment they put into the animal the more money saved and more profit. These types will tell you the horse craps gold and dances like a ballerina with a temperment of a puppy and may even go as far as drugging the animal to "prove" it.

    I went to look at a racking horse at a known trader's farm (well known trader/dealer that I never heard any particularly bad about them). So I took a gander. The horses at the farm were well fed and though some of the hooves were questioinable none were obviously lame. The environment was rough looking but not heaped up with trash, junk and cruddy stalls. Ok, so I continued. I like big horses, I saw this one particular horse that was big (big boned and tall) decently conformed and racked. I played with the horse a little and it seemed sane with a sound temperment. No red flags there. But it had a HUGE scar on its left hind cannon bone (old scar due to untreated proud flesh from a wound). I asked about it and the trader didnt know the origin of the wound. Ok no big deal. The wound did not seem to hinder the animal in any way but was mostly cosmetic. I wasnt looking for a show prospect but I was looking for an animal that I could show localy if I wanted to. (I would have a Vet check anyways.) The traders/seller's son got on the horse and rode it and the horse racked nicely not missing a beat. Another plus for me. I aksed more and more questions and got alot of I don't knows and some were answered. I was looking for a young animal at the time. I was also told the horse was registered racking horse but no papers exsisted. I was also told the horse was 5 years old. I went and checked out the mouth. 5 years plus 10. This horse was 15 years of age and was lip tattooed.
    The horse was a Standardbred (definatly not the classic Standardbred conformational characteristics), raced but probably bombed on the track. The wound was more than likely an old accident from racing days. I say the horse had a tendacy to rack and failed as a pacer and was sold down the line. I wish I was able to decipher the entire tattoo to get details but some of it was to muddy and I did not have a black light to luminate it better. The trader didnt even know the horse was tattooed and did not know how to read teeth. He went by what he was probably told. I don't beleive the seller was trying to be deceiving purposely but simply just didnt know himself. The age turned me off as well as some of the I don't knows and yes the scar blemish added to it, though I wanted to ride the horse for my own amusement I chose not to waste the sellers time. Do I beleive the seller was being deceiving????? No I didnt get that feeling at all. The answers I got where either answered or I got an I don't know. I would rather ppl tell me I don't know than make up a story.

    There was another well known trader who was as shady as they come. EVERYTHING he had was "child proof". This person had been in trouble with the law over shady deals, and had been sued a couple of times. THis boarder (inexperienced but thought she knew it all) at the barn where I kept my mare had a friend (not horse savy in any manner) thought it could be great to buy a horse for her self and 3 yr old daughter (who showed no intrest in any of the horses there at the barn ever). Well long story short a horse was bought from said shady trader through inexperienced friend who had not a clue. The horse was boarded at the facility where I kept mine. The horse was "damaged" mentally. Very aggressive to other animals, unpredicatable, explosive behavior to handlers and well.. troubled greatly (He would stomp his feet and act like he was going to charge at you when asked to pick up his feet.). After some time the owner asked me if I would work with the animal and I accepted the challenege (I had rehabbed trouble animals before with great success) and a contract was made. The friends daughter (a bull headed, flakey teenager with boundry issues) would literraly run this animal half to death and then put it up wet (sweaty). This horse trusted no one, rather understandable. THe deal was that this teen was not to be riding or handling the horse while I worked with him and the owner had to participate in its training (lessons and handling lessons, all of this in contract.) The owner was told the horse was 5yrs old.....not... he was about 13. No big deal. So I worked with him......very unpredicatable. I did alot of trust build exercises, (he about kicked my head off when I pressed him a little bit at times). Definitely not to be trusted with kids AT ALL. THis is a horse I would have deemed unsafe and to be handled by a pro.) I eventually made the horse moldable. Meaning the horse was on his way to being rehabbed. (I put 60 days into him). Definitely not fixed (would take a long time to do that). I kept a progression log and detailed all of his responses and how well he did or not each time I worked with him. He was improving....I did not let him get away with anything at any time. Now here is the kicker. I set up lessons for the owner. The owner never showed up for any of them.....not even one (numerous excuses) but occasioinaly would show up duirng the times I worked with the horse. She seemed pleased with the results and stated that numerous times when she worked with the horse on the ground on her own time his manners were much better. I later found out that the owner's friend's teen was sneeking and riding him with out my knowlege (barn owner told me that one). Explains some regression questioins I had. The last day of training the owner came out while I was working the horse and I had her ride him and work with the horse. She was estatic on how well he did. I told her how much better it would have been if she had showed up for the lessons and all she could say was "I know" and that was all. She even sent me a thank you card with a nice little letter written in it telling me how greatful she was that I worked with him (I didnt even charge her that much). I gave her a copy of all of my journal notes on the horse as well as an ending statement stating the animal was not fixed but progressing well and with proper continual training should be servicebly usable and not be handled by an inexperienced person/s and etc.. Well afterwards the stupid teen was free to ride this poor animal again and was allowed to get away with murder because no one showed up for thier lessons to learn how to deal with his issues and well he regressed and became is lovely old self again. I was blamed for this. This woman threatened to sue me. I had a contract, witnesses, my training log (she tried to say I never gave her one but she signed both her copy and my original stating such) and since she never showed for lessons and what have you she had no leg to stand on. It was her fault, her "know it all friend's" fault, not mine. That was the last "troubled" horse I worked with for any one.

    Bad horse traders/dealers, inexperienced ppl, and stupid ppl mixed up spells trouble, trouble, trouble.
    Foxhunter and EliRose like this.
         
        12-23-2013, 04:21 AM
      #70
    Green Broke
    Here, in Australia, you're not going to get anywhere in court. Horses don't come with a guarantee, they're a live animal, it's buyer beware. Maybe, maybe you would have a case if you'd got on her a week after you got her and she went insane and you wanted to return her but not months on. I've known people buy horses that were drugged and such and still they cannot win a court case because there are no laws on what a seller has to do. A lot of the "misrepresentation" stuff is for businesses selling things, not private sellers. If you want a guarantee buy from a dealer/training business.

    In the Australian legal system being friends with a police officer will do you no good in a case like this. Chances are you'll end up spending money on solicitors.

    Besides, lots of rodeo horses are okay out of the ring. They're trained to behave that way, chuck on a normal saddle and some of them are fine to ride around. It's not something that would have to be disclosed.

    I know you make it sound like your only option is to put her to sleep or turn her out, but if she's a nice enough type you'll probably be able to give her away with all her issues. Lots of people like a challenge, be clear in the ad, something like - "Ex rodeo bucking horse, okay to ride at walk and trot but bucks in the canter, and has a history of dangerous rearing, may suit retraining or companion". I know one trainer tried with her, but different methods can work with different horses.

    Also, a warning you'll probably ignore. You can't throw mud without getting dirty, if you set out to ruin this woman's reputation you'll end up damaging your own in the process. As you can see on this thread, just your comments on the seller have already been received poorly.
         

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