I learned how to collect!
   

       The Horse Forum > Keeping and Caring for Horses > Horse Talk

I learned how to collect!

This is a discussion on I learned how to collect! within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

    Like Tree16Likes
    • 1 Post By mrstorres2566
    • 5 Post By Saranda
    • 5 Post By Clava
    • 2 Post By tinyliny
    • 1 Post By mrstorres2566
    • 2 Post By jaydee

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        09-27-2013, 09:06 PM
      #1
    Weanling
    I learned how to collect!

    To most this isn't much of an accomplishment, but to me it's huge. I just started learning English riding about 6 weeks ago. We have also been trying to get my gelding to lose weight, but I noticed he has COMPLETELY lost his top line instead of his gut. I mentioned this in front of the trainers. So, while trotting yesterday, one of the trainers (not mine, mine was working with a crazed mare) shouted "make him collect, it will engage his top line." I must have had a confused look on my face because she halted me and showed me how to wiggle my hands (kind of rocking like) and he instantly collected. So afterwards, every time he raised his head, I had him collect.
    She even got me to understand proper contact. I now have a lot more control. I noticed that different trainers teach me different things. I kind of like using different trainers every so often, a new perspective seems to help me out more.
    Celeste likes this.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        09-28-2013, 05:47 AM
      #2
    Super Moderator
    Sorry to burst your party, but what you did cannot be considered collection. You just see-sawed his head down to his chest, which does not engage the topline. True collection comes through the hind legs, when those are properly engaged and the horse starts carrying his weight correctly, engaging his topline. It has nothing to do with getting his neck arched mechanically. Here's a very good read on this topic:

    ::: Sustainable Dressage - Collection & Its Evasions - False Collection & Evasions :::

    ::: Sustainable Dressage - Collection & Its Evasions - True Collection - What It Is and How to Achieve It :::

    Learning collection never comes from just wiggling the reins and in one lesson. It takes years for a horse to be ready for the true collection, and no less for a novice rider to truly learn it.
         
        09-28-2013, 05:56 AM
      #3
    Yearling
    Yes, I have to agree with Saranda. There are seven steps to true collection:
    Rhythm
    Suppleness
    Contact
    Impulsion
    Straightness
    And finally Collection.

    Once these are achieved, the horse will drop his head down naturally.
    For true collection you need to really push on with your legs, but keep a tight outside rein to control the speed, and jiggle ever so slightly with the inside rein (this is how I have always been taught, so others may use different methods). Alternatively, you can use inside leg to out side hand.
    Basically collection is getting the horse like a coiled spring, and stepping under himself, driving from the hind quarters, rather than pulling himself along from the front.
    It takes years of skill and patience to establish consistent, true collection.
         
        09-28-2013, 06:34 AM
      #4
    Super Moderator
    I think maybe the OP means she got the horse soft and listening to her which is a first great step and to feel the difference is huge and a great starting place, although I would avoid from doing much more than a gentle ask of the horse followed for the necessary give with the hands as a reward
    tinyliny, bsms, jaydee and 2 others like this.
         
        09-28-2013, 06:56 AM
      #5
    Green Broke
    See-sawing does not equal collection or softness. Any trainer who teaches that and calls it collection is not worth your time or money.
         
        09-28-2013, 01:18 PM
      #6
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clava    
    I think maybe the OP means she got the horse soft and listening to her which is a first great step and to feel the difference is huge and a great starting place, although I would avoid from doing much more than a gentle ask of the horse followed for the necessary give with the hands as a reward
    This is correct! It's maybe a start that you are feeling the difference between passive contact and active contact. But it isn't collection, per se. And it can become a bit of a trap where you end up pulling all the forward energy out of the horse , deadening his gait and teaching him to evade the bit by coming behind it. Still, you felt something different and it's cool that you are learning to manipulate the rein more purposefully. Just don't get stuck there and forget that everything depends on the hind end and what's going forward from there.
    Clava and bsms like this.
         
        09-28-2013, 01:27 PM
      #7
    Green Broke
    Great posts Tinylily and Clava!
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        09-28-2013, 06:15 PM
      #8
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    This is correct! It's maybe a start that you are feeling the difference between passive contact and active contact. But it isn't collection, per se. And it can become a bit of a trap where you end up pulling all the forward energy out of the horse , deadening his gait and teaching him to evade the bit by coming behind it. Still, you felt something different and it's cool that you are learning to manipulate the rein more purposefully. Just don't get stuck there and forget that everything depends on the hind end and what's going forward from there.
    Aw, I was all proud of myself, and now I'm a little sad. I definitely felt a big difference, the way he carried himself changed completely. He is a Western and English horse, I usually ride Western on him since it is what I know. So when I ride English I am always learning something new. The trainer taught me to keep the inside rein tight to control speed, and the outside rein slightly looser and that was to control direction. I also leg rein, and I am always using my legs. He ALWAYS avoids the bit, stretching his head to his knees, and yanking hard on my hands. But when I rock my hands, the little wiggle thing, he drops his head and tucks it. Then he really uses his hind end to almost 'push' himself, instead of his front end to 'pull' himself, if that makes any sense. This is all extremely new to me, so I may have done it wrong, but it sure felt different. And both trainers agreed it look awesome. Either way, it is a small accomplishment for me and I will continue to grow and learn.
         
        09-28-2013, 06:19 PM
      #9
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CandyCanes    
    Yes, I have to agree with Saranda. There are seven steps to true collection:
    Rhythm
    Suppleness
    Contact
    Impulsion
    Straightness
    And finally Collection.

    Once these are achieved, the horse will drop his head down naturally.
    For true collection you need to really push on with your legs, but keep a tight outside rein to control the speed, and jiggle ever so slightly with the inside rein (this is how I have always been taught, so others may use different methods). Alternatively, you can use inside leg to out side hand.
    Basically collection is getting the horse like a coiled spring, and stepping under himself, driving from the hind quarters, rather than pulling himself along from the front.
    It takes years of skill and patience to establish consistent, true collection.
    I should have read ALL of your post before I commented on Tiny's comment. This is what he was doing. Once he lowered his head and tucked his chin, he used his back end to 'push' himself instead of his front end to 'pull' himself. I was taught to keep the outside rein tight to control speed, and the inside slightly looser and use it to control direction. I also use my legs for direction and to push him forward. I will *try* to get a video tomorrow, depending if anyone else is there or not to record it, and you can tell me if it looks correct.
    CandyCanes likes this.
         
        09-29-2013, 12:42 PM
      #10
    Super Moderator
    Collection is a result of riding the horse forwards with your seat and legs into a light resisting hand - if no resistance the horse will just 'run' forwards away from your legs - neck outstretched
    When I read the OP's post I did not see any mention of 'see sawing' - what I read was 'wiggling my hands' - very different
    You can understand that to mean closing your fingers on the reins in light resistance or 'vibrating' your fingers on the reins which will also give a signal to the horse to relax its jaw
    Clava and QHriderKE like this.
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    How do I collect my horse? ponyluver420 English Riding 19 07-15-2013 05:49 PM
    Collect the Canter rosie756 Dressage 7 08-14-2012 08:17 PM
    Anyone collect bits? OkieGal Horse Talk 5 02-19-2012 10:20 AM
    How Do I Get My Horse To Collect? mandik92 Horse Training 5 06-15-2011 03:51 PM
    What do you ''collect''? :P Zab Horse Talk 20 11-12-2008 07:16 AM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:39 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0