The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Keep or sell?

2K views 17 replies 12 participants last post by  aclassicalpaint 
#1 ·
I'd like to think I'm a decent rider. I fall in the category of intermediate, if I have to put a label on it. My trainer even suggested I buy this horse. I tried him, everything was great. He went into training for 2 months and then I brought him to our current barn.
He gained quite a bit of weight and is now packed with muscle. I knew his attitude would change slightly, but I never expected this.
With my trainers, he's nearly perfect. They can wtc him and he doesn't spook or throw any major fits (just head tossing occasionally). I used to be able to ride him like that.
If anything, my riding skills have improved with him. But now, I can barely trot him. Yesterday he "spooked" and bolted towards a jump, crow hopping and popping up the whole way there until I was able to stop him. He did that 3 times. We were only walking.
I'm so confused, I bought a completely different horse! He used to be such a gentleman under saddle and would take care of me. Now it's the complete opposite.
It's not that I can't handle his fits, but I just don't want to and really shouldn't have to. I wanted a safe horse that I could confidently wtc on. I get him out every day and it makes no difference. This is purely behavioral, nothing is physically bothering him.
I love him, but I'm wondering if this is a good match. Am I not enough for him? Do I just need more lessons on him and it will be okay? Or is he too much?
I'm keeping him in training and am starting lessons next week so I'm not making any decisions right now.
I just wanted to ask some outside opinions and see if anyone had similar situations?
 
See less See more
#2 ·
If his attitude has really changed that much I think you should rule out pain or saddle fit issues first. If teeth etc have been checked I would see if he is ring sour. A lot of training has put a lot of stress on his mind and he may need a break. You did not say how old this horse is - but some horses need a break from constant schooling and training.

Do I think you need to sell the horse? I think only you can really answer that question. Horses have minds of their own and if he feels any hesitation at all in you he will take advantage of it. Have you thought of just spending some time working on the ground with him? Not just lunging but games etc. Horses are not machines and need some variations in their life.

All work and no play...... as they say.
 
#3 ·
Something similar happened to my daughter last year. She started with a new horse and at first he was perfect, they had a few issues they had to work through just because they were figuring each other out. After about a month things started to change in his attitude, and he was getting more difficult to ride and started refusing to get into the trailer, etc. At shows we'd run into people who had leased him prior and all we heard was how great he was & how well they did when they showed. That WAS NOT the horse she was using, he was a completely different horse! He didn't pull his stunts at home or when her coach was riding, but his attitude just kept getting worse. He'd had chiro before we started with him, and has never had lameness issues, did just fine on a flexion test, etc. Just as a "why the hell not" we had a lameness specialist come out to take a look at him. Sure enough, there was some stuff going on that the horse hid VERY well other than the sudden behavior change, but a specialist was able to pick up on it. The issues had just gotten to the point that his body & brain said enough was enough. That & my daughter being a little less experienced than his last riders became the perfect storm for his behavior change just when she was on him.

I know you said you know there's not a physical cause and that it's behavioral, but was that determined by a specialist? I'm only asking because a million people and even general practice equine vets didn't couldn't see anything that was causing his attitude. But because the lameness vet knew other, more specific things to look at, he was able to figure out what was going on. Up until that point, I've always thought that any good vet better be able to determine if a horse has some physical issues going on. Yeah, THAT opinion has since changed...
 
#4 ·
My vet boards her horses at the same facility, and one is actually stalled right next to him. She constantly checks the horses and she did a full check on him not too long ago. His feet are good, his legs are good. His teeth are a little sharp but those are getting floated very soon. And other than that, he did make his hamstring sore in October but he's almost completely healed now. He gets regular chiropractic adjustments. If he acted this way with the trainers, I would be more inclined to exhaust every possibility. But he's great with them and I don't have the money to do that anyway.
 
#7 ·
That's why I asked about a specialist :wink:. His vet/chiropractor's horse was in the same pasture as him (until she had to put him down as the result of a reaction to Z-gold, but that's for a different post) so she saw my daughters horse regularly as well. She has an excellent reputation and is by no stretch of the imagination lacking in knowledge or experience, but it took that other vet who had that specific expertise to figure out what was going on.
 
#5 ·
I second checking saddle fit, only because you mentioned he put on more weight and muscle so now he is shaped differently than he was before. Another thing to ask yourself is how often the trainer was riding him and how often you are riding him. If you are not riding him at least as much as the trainer was (4 days a week, 5, whatever it was) this can affect behavior with many horses. I always say a good horse is one that is ridden a lot.

Checking his tack: Once you've determined the saddle still fits, think back to any recent tack changes he's had. New saddle pad? New bit? Any new piece of tack, go back and reconsider.

Then try to remember when all of this started. There was a trigger/breaking point for this horse somewhere along the line. I'm assuming that if you're trainer can ride him, then there is some trigger you are setting off. There is something that you are not doing that your trainer is, or vice versa something that you are doing that your trainer is not. The fact that he still tosses his head when ridden by your trainer just tells me something is off with this horse. He is unhappy about something. If its not tack, and you've had him checked by a chiropractor, his hoof/shoeing condition is good, then it may be that he needs a break from constant schooling. Get him out of the ring and do something different with him.

Often behavioral problems start small and before you realize it you have a big problem. In example: Horse continually steps into your space and possibly shoves you in the process. You do not correct and let it go on, and before you know it you're being dragged at the end of a lead rope by a horse with bad ground manners who no longer respects you or your space. So he may have started testing you a while back, and you didn't realize he was testing you. Now he's a monster, and you have to figure out what the trigger was and how to fix the vice. Bad vices/habits are no fun to break.

God Bless, be safe!
 
#9 ·
Don't give up. Horse's don't suddenly change behavior, unless there's a cause. And I SERIOUSLY doubt getting more muscled is what's causing a change. Unless of course he was wider than he is tall or skin & bones before training...theeeennn maybe I'd go with that reasoning
 
#12 ·
it is possible that something has changed that is causing the problem or that something was always there but not apparent when the horse was not in top condition.

I am also curious about the head tossing if this is something the horse has always done as it seems to be a sign that something is bothering him. The spooking I am guessing is feigned as a protest unless something happened to cause it which seems unlikely. I agree with the other posters who said that he may just need a mental break from training
 
#13 ·
The fact that other people can ride him okay, I could see that going either way. Maybe she's just not experienced enough, or may he's using her inexperience to express some sort of pain. It could be that something is bothering him and the trainers have him in such good control he won't act out to show it.

Does she take any lessons on him or is she just riding him on her own? I'm wondering if the trainer is watching maybe they'll notice something different...
 
#14 ·
I had a skinny horse. I brought her back on. Then we had a few differences in opinion, and she won. I got to the point where I was terrified of her. I'd walk her, and she'd refuse to trot because she knew she'd get away with it. She'd give half hearted bucks when I asked her to trot.

I did toughen up, and I did manage to ride her, but I no longer enjoyed riding her. I got her to the point where I could sell her.

It sounds like, if there is nothing physical, he has your number. Speak to your trainers about doing ground work and how you can become more assertive in the saddle and on the ground to gain his respect.
 
#15 ·
Are you currently taking lessons on him? That's what I would do...you need someone to watch what he's doing and your reaction to it to see what you should do to correct the behavior. If training includes lessons, I'd put him back into training and take lessons at the same time.
 
#16 ·
It's natural that once he got better feeding that he would start to feel very good in himself. Is he getting grain? He may need to be put onto just hay now that he's brought his weight back up. He is also much fitter as a result. Would a quick lunge before you get on take the sillyness out of him? He just sounds too fresh to me.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#17 ·
Well... if is saddle used to fit, It really shouldn't fit now. Any change, even a tiny one, would compleatly change the fit of the saddle. Such as if you wear a small shirt and go up a boob size or put some muscle on your shoulders. The belly of the shirt will be fine, but you would then find that the width around your op half no longer cuts it. Nor will it be as long as it used to be. IF he was skinny/un muscled. And now he is really muscled. Then no, that saddle should no longer fit. Don't go by what your trainer says, or a vet, or a farrier. You need someone whos job is to tell you if that saddle fits. OR if you can't afford that there are many people on here who can give you a hand if you take a series of photos of your fellow with his saddle on. Just ask what photos they need first. ;) Its better to be 100% sure
 
#18 ·
My trainers are amazing, and because of injuries and such I have not had a lesson on him in a while. His saddles fit! I've changed saddles since he has put on weight and muscle. He gets alfalfa and 2 cups of Integrity Adult/Senior (no molasses) every day.
I think DuffyDuck is right, he has my number.
These past few days I have been trying to gain more respect on the ground. Yesterday we did w/t in the bull pen and he was a gem. I don't think he's over throwing those fits, but hopefully this passes! It reminds me of my mare who was at a similar level that he is. She used to balk at one corner of the arena and then spin on her haunches and refuse to turn back around. After a while I got her respect and she has never done anything naughty like that since. I'm hoping this is the same kind of thing. He really is a good horse, it's possible he's just feeling really good and I need help learning how to communicate with him. I'm starting lessons back up with him very soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top