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Leasing... decisions, decisions

2K views 19 replies 10 participants last post by  SlideStop 
#1 ·
Trailing off my other thread.. I think I've officially decided that doing a lease would be the best idea. It would allow her to keep working (which she loves), allow me to still ride her (on occasion, as I'd try to full lease her), and get a decent amount of her bills covered (self explanatory). I think that would be a win-win for all envolved!

I've even started lightly looking at barns. So far I found one place I really like, $400 a month for pasture board. It includes everything, so "full board", unlimited hay, supplements fed, blanket changes (important to me since my horse is not assertive enough to make it into the shed), there is a dust free indoor, large outdoor, and round pen. There isn't any direct trail access but my horse is traffic safe and the farmers will allow you to ride the edges of the corn fields to get to the trails. Funny story, I've actually been there before since my best friend used to board her horse there. It's has since turned over hands though.

So some of the road blocks I've been having...

When should I move her? I'm worried that it may be harder to find someone to lease her in the fall then in the summer. Bringing her down there sooner, in the beginning of the summer, means I'll be going 6 months without being with her. I can see her a couple times a month, and my friend would be checking up on her. On the positive side I could save money keeping her in PA, while allowing me to focus on working overtime, saving money and paying off our wedding vendors before moving.

Or, I can keep her here until fall, ride her and enjoy her this summer and worry about finding a leaser later.

Then as far as payment, I figured the leaser would pay board and routine vet/dental. I'd cover her medications and shoes? If the leaser wanted to lower the cost of board by moving facilities I'd be ok with that too. Or, likewise, if they want more amenities I'd be ok with them moving to a nice place. I'm sure it goes without say the place would have to be approved by me.


A quick video of us messing around the other day...

https://youtu.be/aFTmudGIsm4
 
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#2 ·
Your question may be answered if you contact the new barn about availability. If they have no room now, you may need to get on a waiting list. If they have room now, they may not have room later. ;)
 
#4 ·
Several of my friends have either done leases lately or looked into doing them. They all seem to look for leases where they pay for board, but the owner pays for vet, supplements, medications, tack. I've talked to them about this, and they seem to feel that the owner would have to pay for everything including the board if they weren't leasing, and if they paid for vet and maintenance they might as well buy a horse of their own since they aren't saving very much.
In particular saying "vet bills" makes them nervous because they worry an owner might blame them for a lameness issue from riding, etc., and then they'd be stuck with the vet bill. So they look for leases where the owner will agree to pay all vet bills.

The friends of mine who want to lease are doing so because they can't afford the full cost of a horse right now. One already has a horse she is paying for, but the horse is retired. The other wants to buy soon, but is trying to save money right now while paying off loans. With board only, she feels she is still paying less than it would cost her to own a horse.
 
#6 ·
I think that sounds like a pretty fair lease that you are offering. Sometimes the deal is a set dollar amount to the owner who then pays the bills and then other times it's the leaser pays all bills involved. I like your option. It's nice.

When I started off with the leasing thing, I made a few mistakes. First, I offered a free lease. When things are free, you get a lot of entitled butts. The first girl that came out didn't follow any of my rules, brought her friends out, lost my tack, broke my tack, never helped, ever, and was going back to where she took lessons and pretty much bad mouthing me. I knew that because overtime she came out she out tell me how I don't take care of their feet correctly (I only have 2 in shoes). They shouldn't ride barefoot, I don't feed right. (I feed hay and gain twice daily with some on supplements and hay pellets as well). She talked about my training methods (I'm not a trainer - I use a trainer). Etc. She would come back and tell me how Her trainer said this and that. Then I found out she was coming out when she wasn't supposed to and she was bringing boyfriends and other friends and riding horses that she did not have permission to ride. It was the most stressful thing for me because I am a very non confrontational person. (I know... I know... funny ha ha) Finally I texted her - because I'm a coward - and told her she couldn't come out anymore. I took all of my tack and put it in my suburban and drove around with it in the back of my suburban for weeks. Halters, lead ropes, saddles. The rest of the stuff I put in the house. I was that worried about her coming out.

Then I forgot that I had left the sign for a free lease up at the tack shop and I got a call from a women that had 2 girls. One in elementary and one in middle school. I almost said no, but I let her come out. The older one is now graduated from college, the younger one is in college. They clean my barn, ride my horses, clean my tack, sweep my aisles... They do anything and everything and I have never asked them to do anything. They do it all because they want to. Of course over the rules they've been given freedom to ride all of the horses in the barn. The only thing I ask is if they ride Riley or Cloud they text me so I don't come home and ride them again. They were the best thing I could have ever come across.

So what I'm hoping for you si that you get a middle school or teen age kid with good parents. Otherwise, an adult women that's looking for something to have fun on...

But I Do think this is a great option for you.
 
#7 ·
I agree with gotta--I think it's generally accepted that the owner is still in charge of all/most vet/farrier fees.

I will say that, in the full leases I have participated in, there was a section that stated I would be responsible for 'incidental' vet fees. That is, if something happened that required the vet's attention, and were the leasers fault, they would be responsible for the bill.

I guess, ultimately, there's a lot of variation in the logistics of how leases are laid out. Depending on your horse and your area, you may have the leeway to be a little picky!
 
#8 ·
Honestly, routine vet and dental are inexpensive it's trivial. I could agree to paying routine expenses, but I would think any be responsible for any damages caused on their time or by negligence?
@farmpony84, Someone told me to work into the lease that there is a 3 month probationary period where I can terminate at anytime if I feel the leaser is in appropriate. I thought that was a good idea.

Ideally I'd like to find someone similar to me. Someone who likes to trail ride, dink around at home, and enjoys local shows. My horse loves the variety. Not sure how I'd feel about a teen, but I guess it would be good if they had a reliable parent.

I guess if I can't find someone there is a green pasture somewhere with her name on it.
 
#9 ·
I'd see how many biters you get before making a decision....send out some feelers.

Regarding cost I recently typed up an agreement for my friend. She was keeping the horse at her barn (she's the manager) full lease. She paid for everything routine with a note that the Previcox would be owner supplied as agreed upon same as joint injections as it was a preexisting need to keep him workable (old injury.. it makes sense- I'll buy your car but you need to do the work to make it driveable). She also got burned with a previous horse who through no fault of anyone did not stay sound and she ended up paying quite a bit to try and make her sound to no avail so we included a clause that she was willing to pay up to "x" amount on any unforseen medical bills and that after that amount (I think they agreed on a couple hundred) everything would be billed to the owner.

We also stated that either party could cancel at anytime with notice (30 or 60?) or immediately if the terms of the agreement were breached (spelled out horses care and basic expectations).

Both parties were happy and I honestly think it benefited my friend more than the owner but the owner didn't complain so... while I wasn't involved in the lease itself I was also very happy with it and would absolutely pretty much copy it if I were to lease.

It's pretty standard around here- full lease means it's basically your horse, you should be expected to pay for everything. The clauses are that at the end of the day it's not your horse and anything extra the horse may need to keep the lease applicable (Previcox/injection example) is on the owner. Anything beyond that is on the leasee as it's their choice. Any unplanned medical expenses is a bit less clear cut but I think what my friend decided to do was a very fair solution- covers the owner as it's not their fault the horse pulls a tendon but covers the leasee in that it's not their fault either- they fulfilled the lease by having the vet out and caring for the animal but if the vet says "here's the plan to get the horse sound" (and the leasee still decides to keep the horse with the bad tendon...maybe needed a better example haha!) that falls into the category of the Previcox and injections. Make sense?

As I said very standard.... only paying for part of the expenses would definitely fall under less than a full lease around here. Maybe a little different as yours will be on farm but you say the costs in that area are minimal. I'd say it's probably area dependent a little.
 
#10 ·
I full lease. I pay a weekly fee ($70 AUD)
But that covers basically everything, so I pay the owner, and he covers board/feed/farrier (He does this himself anyway), Vet, etc. So my fee covers the full months board and I'd say majority of feed if not all.
We have an arrangement where if the horse gets injured, that is his responsibility, and obviously if I get injured, that is on me (this was on his terms, so was quite lucky that he openly took all vetting/injury responsibility)

This situation works out really well, and he's a very easy going relaxed person, so there is a good understanding.
This could be an option for you, just have a weekly/monthly fee, that will in turn cover a lot of things for yourself, and then the leaser will have basically all the freedom but of course, I do think if injury/vet bills occur, depending on the situation of course, but I think most of the time that should come back to the owner. Just my personal view, but I have never leased out a horse, so I can't speak from an owning perspective.
I also do supply all my own tack (aside from rugs/halters/boots which belong to the horse)
He was happy for me to use his tack for the first few months. As wouldn't expect anyone to go out and buy there own if not going to be long term. That was his preference, although, I don't doubt he would have been pretty easy going if I didn't get my own. Which I did pretty much straight away. Mostly because he rides in stock tack, and I prefer english, so I just got everything to suit this horse (his horses all full size) so most things won't be a problem to change - The saddle, I got what fit myself/the horse with a changeable gullet. So again may not fit all horses, but for now it's great, and I hope to stick with this horse for as long as I can anyway!

Hope that helps!
 
#11 ·
@Yogiwick, that's what I assumed. When someone says "full lease" I always assumed the horse was more or less yours... including its bills. I though paying for the upkeep of her soundness would be more then fair. But like I said, routine stuff is so nominal. I give my own injections (vaccines and Osphos), and the dental usually only needs to be done once a year. Hopefully I can find a competent vet in the area so I don't have to pay for two farm calls, one for vet and one for dentist. I guess I can put in my ad that lease terms are negotiatable to the right person?

Not sure what you are trying to say about the unplanned medical expenses. But I think it would be fair to say the leaser should pay vet bills if let's say they polo wrap her wrong and she bows a tendon, if they shipped her and she cut herself because they weren't using shipping boots, or if she pulled a shoe because they weren't riding/shipping in bell boots . I'd pay for something like a pasture accident, unexplained lameness, abcesses, etc. Luckily (knocks closest wood) she is *fairly* non accident prone. I've yet to call a vet for her for an ok routine matter since I've owned her, and since I've know her I don't their she has needed anything except non routine care.
 
#12 · (Edited)
It sounds like you're willing to pay for anything that is not directly the leasees fault, which is fine though be careful of the grey area.

What I was saying was that any expenses aside from something directly someone's fault say an abscess my friend was willing to pay for, but she put a cap on the amount of money (we will say $200) she was willing to put into that abscess to protect herself as she had experienced that with her previous horse. So if the vet is called for an abscess for $200 she would pay that bill, but if the vet then said "this isn't an abscess you need to do take her to the hospital for 5k" any amount above what was previously decided on (5k) would be on the owner. So it sort of covers day to day incidents but protects her in case of something more complicated like her previous lease mare's unexplained lameness that she was through xyz and lots of money to try and figure out before reluctantly sending her back.

But if you're willing to pay for those then that's irrelevant :)

I forgot you're a vet tech or something right?

I think $400 + (a few hundred bucks ANNUALLY) in an inexpensive area (will you still be doing vaccs and such yourself?) is a PHENOMENAL deal. Around here that's what you would get to ride a backyard horse a few days a week and nothing more lol and is very very fair (maybe a little too? lol) of you. I've seen some schoolmaster leases for $400/week for like 3 rides. Regardless of area the leasee is paying practically nothing aside from board for a full lease, you could definitely get away with a lot more methinks XD

In response to @gottatrot the benefit of a FULL lease over own isn't supposed to be significantly monetary, it's mostly that you have a safety pocket of not actually owning the horse should you decide you want/need out for whatever reason and just don't want that commitment. While there is a slight monetary benefit I'm surprised at that as most people who figure that just do a partial lease. A full lease is basically a free lease around here..the horse is basically yours in everything but name, if you don't want full you just do partial. If I have practically nothing to do with my horse anymore then why would I want to pay for it? The logic works in reverse. While I get the mindset (I don't lease haha) I don't think it works well in application.

I agree you absolutely need to find the right person.
 
#13 ·
Nope, not a vet tech, but a nurse! I was so outraged when I found out my vet charges three times the amount I pay for the vaccine. Plus, it's probably even cheaper for them buying in bulk!!

If she get her the bill will be covered one way or another. Fingers crossed I can find an honest person with a decent amount of intergirty to say "hey, I messed up, I think she need a stitch or two" vs someone who's like "I have no idea how that happened, wasn't me". I guess it is what it is! I can't be there to police 24/7 and say this is absolutely your fault.

I may be able to get away with more, but it's more important that I find a good match for her, even if it means me paying a little more.

My area is SUPER expensive, I pay $650 for board. That's in a backyard on one acre, a ring that has a pile of sand in it and isn't maintained so I have to walk 1/2 mile to ride in a decent arena, and I have to walk on and cross a BUSY road to make it to the trails. Oh, and my horse turn out... well I don't call it a paddock I call it and outdoor stall attach. Moving her would be a HUGE increase in her quality of life IMO. I feel almost slightly selfish for keeping her here though the summer.
 
#14 ·
Ohh I knew it was something medical :)

Yes it's much cheaper to do things yourself!!

So move her. Is your friend able to check in on her more regularly? It's a little tricky with the timing but I think if you find the right person it will all be worth it. Sounds like a great opportunity for someone. The only thing is if you move her and she's just sitting around it may be a little harder to find someone but that depends on the horse too, at least you'll be saving money on board!

From what I'm hearing it sounds like the only reason not to move her now is because you won't be there with her, which is valid but there are also plenty of reasons to move her now.
 
#15 ·
Yes, the barn I'm thinking about is 25 minutes away. She could get out there weekly to check on her, probably more if I compensated her. The more I'd get comfortable with the facility the less she'd have to go. The BO of the place sounds like a "watch dog" type. She says leasers and trainers are find by her, there is no additional ring fee for trainers or extra board charge for leasers. Her only requirement is that they are doing to right thing by the horse.

I guess I'll start making arrangements to see the barn sooner rather then later. Gotta also put together an ad and a good video. Anything in particular you'd like to see in a video?
 
#17 ·
Sounds pretty good to me!!

I haven't leased but I'd just want to have a general impression of the horse (personality/temperament make them want to see her) and just a quick showcase of skills putting the horse through the paces... w/t/c anything specific the horse is good at (trail riding etc) if your horse has specific training some of that (jumping fences, barrel racing, whatever) especially if you're willing to let her be shown or looking for a specific type of lease discipline wise. I'd put a quick conformation shot too, they aren't buying her but it's very similar to a sales add "come see my horse" and if I were to lease I would want a nice looking solid horse. It's just to grab their attention. The video you posted is nice but you can see that you're just fooling around, I'd try to do something a little more "finished" as if you were in a show ring. I also notice shes a bit grumpy at times (to leg maybe?) for some horses it just is what is it lol but if you can avoid that it would be better- cuteness wins points!

It just depends on what you're looking for I think.
@gottatrot definitely seems to be area dependent! I haven't heard of anyone leasing for just a few months and those situations tend to be partial ime. Also if someone was the only person riding the horse but the lease was only for 1 day a week I would consider that a partial to me "full" means everything. It's interesting I wouldn't think that would be so varied! I can definitely see a short term lease being different but have only heard of short term leases being partial which is usually a set price that the owner can break up however you see fit (say $800 straight to the owner).
 
#18 ·
I had a 'shared full-lease' where basically we full-leased my horse but split both costs and riding days with another girl. I paid half of board, routine vet costs (shots, dewormers etc) and farrier. The owner agreed to take care of any unexpected vet costs.

A good way to handle the 'unexpected vet costs' option is saying the leaser is responsible for them, but if they are unable to handle the amount they can give the horse back with no notice. Most people do get attached to the horses they're riding, so they will try to pay if they can, but wont feel like theyre taking all of the responsibility of ownership without the bill of sale. I know several people who keep full-leases at my barn (dont pay the owner, but pay all of the horses' bills, owner is at another barn) have this option if the horse becomes unrideable or needs vet care that goes beyond what they can handle financially.

Now I own my horse (same one I leased before) and the other girl still half-leases him on the same terms. I really got lucky with her, because if vet costs or tack replacements come up she always offers to pay half of it, or buy something else the horse needs. I think paying part of it makes her feel more like an 'owner' too. Of course I often tell her not to worry about it, but we did decide to share 2 bridles (one with a snaffle for flatwork and one with an elevator bit for jumping, the elevator bit one is hers, the other mine), we're using her jumping boots (from a previous horse she owned) on the horse until I can afford to buy my own etc. It's something between a lease and a shared ownership!
 
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#19 ·
I am full leasing Redz- his owner (my trainer) pays for pretty much everything & lets me use her saddle, bridles, etc.
However, I do use my own grooming supplies, my own saddlepads & whatnot. His owner pays for vet, dental, farrier, board, feed, etc.

I ride him about 4-5x a week.
I also get a lesson every Saturday, which is included in my lease.

Yeah, a partial lease around here is when you only ride 1-2x a week.

I hope everything works out though, I do think leasing is a good option. It will help you a lot.
 
#20 ·
Thanks everyone!

I think I may be leaning towards keeping her with me a while longer and then moving her in the fall, like September the earliest. This way it won't be 6 months of me traveling back and fourth to PA, letting her 21 year old self get out of shape, worrying about someone doing wrong by her. At least if I do October I'll be back and forth from PA doing job interviews and what not. Then October, November and December won't be so bad.

And thank god for my fiance. I was telling her what my thoughts and plans are. She tells me she not to worry about it, that it's not going to be a huge burden. She wants me to keep her here because it makes me happy. Gotta love a supportive significant other! I guess she is right, my best friend affords to keep her horse at the expensive place, affords her own apartment, and living expenses. We will have a combined income, plus we have better jobs. I'm glad I spoke with her, she put my mind a bit more at ease.
 
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