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Mini filly kicking and other behaviour issues

This is a discussion on Mini filly kicking and other behaviour issues within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        10-18-2013, 01:14 AM
      #21
    Yearling
    Gah, so much wrong with the train of thouht going on here. I mean why in the world put a two yearold BABY in with a stud? Oh, she was lonely...ok..how will you feel if when she does get knocked up, she gets sick, dies, baby dies, both die? That aside....

    I was a noobie owner of an arguably feral horse, and my first was a 5 monyh old filly. Guess what? Its not one size fits all! You HAVE to be able to read them enough to figure out if big andnbad works, or if it was even intentional, or you just got in the way. WE can't TEACH YOU THAT. Nor apparently, does it sound like you want to hear everyone's good advice! If I am right....youre in to learn the hard way. Experiment with her, be grateful she doesnt weigh a thousand pounds, and try not to get too hurt.

    I feel for the poor filly the most...she is the one most bound to suffer if it all goes wrong. Poor thing.
    KylieHuitema likes this.
         
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        10-18-2013, 02:04 AM
      #22
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    Gah, so much wrong with the train of thouht going on here. I mean why in the world put a two yearold BABY in with a stud? Oh, she was lonely...ok..how will you feel if when she does get knocked up, she gets sick, dies, baby dies, both die? That aside....

    I was a noobie owner of an arguably feral horse, and my first was a 5 monyh old filly. Guess what? Its not one size fits all! You HAVE to be able to read them enough to figure out if big andnbad works, or if it was even intentional, or you just got in the way. WE can't TEACH YOU THAT. Nor apparently, does it sound like you want to hear everyone's good advice! If I am right....youre in to learn the hard way. Experiment with her, be grateful she doesnt weigh a thousand pounds, and try not to get too hurt.

    I feel for the poor filly the most...she is the one most bound to suffer if it all goes wrong. Poor thing.
    As far as advise goes, how can you say I don't want to hear "everyone's good advise?" I already stated I was going to separate them. If she's already pregnant, well, I can't do much about that. No, I am not getting him gelded. By the way, my stud is also a baby. He is only 3. I've gotten advise here locally from horse owners who said I should have just put them together from the beginning and not bothered worrying about it like I did. Most have also said I need to get pretty rough with the punishment for a bit until she stops kicking. One offered their round pen and their time as well to help work on her. I came here because wanted other opinions because I don't like to be too rough. I've accomplished much without it with my other animals. If I need to be, so be it but I want to be sure its the right thing to do.
         
        10-18-2013, 02:14 AM
      #23
    Banned
    You can lute if she's already pregnant, and that would be the responsible thing to do, as she's only a baby herself. I can't imagine the local advise you are getting, so I will just let that be.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LittlemanRob    

    In the meantime I still have to deal with this behaviour. Should I react aggressively when she kicks at me? I am quite capable of going after her hard enough to scare the crap out of her without truly injuring her if that's what this situation warrants.
    Yes, make her feel like she has done the worst thing she has ever done, because she has.
         
        10-18-2013, 02:14 AM
      #24
    Yearling
    Yes, you need to get tough with her. Punishment should swift, strong and then over with (don't hold a grudge). Best to stop her when she's just thinking about kicking or biting and before she actually does it. You need to learn to watch for the signs, ears pinned, body tensing, the look she's giving you... are the most obvious.

    About heat cycles stopping in Sept. Ummm no. Hubby left the stallions gate open one time in Nov. And got in with our herd of mares. Was only about an hour until I noticed and went out and got him. Thankfully, only 1 mare ended up pregnant out of the 6 that were in the herd. So I ended up with a colt born in mid October who then officially turned a year old a couple of months later because APHA uses Jan. 1 as the birthdate no matter when they were born the previous year.
         
        10-18-2013, 02:17 AM
      #25
    Yearling
    Actually, if you catch it in time, the vet can give her a shot of Lute. Think of it as the Morning After pill....

    If she is kicking out of fear, that's one consideration. You can then decide if YOU are causing the fear, and how to get hwr over it. OR if she is being a witch, UNLEASH wrath. Don't beat her, but you would need to let her know in no uncertain terms that you are the BOSS, and she dare not even think of raising hoof to you.

    And if you don't want him gelded, get used to him being lonely. Or resign uourself to backyard breeding foals until something bad happens. Hope they all find good homes, and you decide gelding is worth it, otherwise. ...the cycle repeats, only with the added joy of inbreeding!

    How can I say uou arent listening? Ok, Im pretty sure people asked why you would chance breeding these animals.

    Are they registered?
    Any chance of dwarf, read sickly, offspring?
    Do they have good conformation, are built well, for breeding?
    Are you willing and prepared to give prenatal care?
    Do you have a vet on call if something goes wrong with the pregnancy?
    Is there really any darn good reason this stud wouldn't be so much better off as a gelding??!

    And I will add, did you know she can get knocked up AGAIN her heat after baby?

    Anyway, IMO you're over your head. Get the filly a shot of lute if possible, separate them and work on her training issues WITHOUT the added atress.
         
        10-18-2013, 03:52 AM
      #26
    Started
    If you have someone who offered their round pen and their time to help I would certainly take then up on their offer. Often just getting help to get started solving a behavior problem will do wonders for both you and the little horse. She may be a real stinker right now but she may be clueless and confused and frustrated too. Getting her to accept a halter and being handled is a beginning. You have to be consistent and clear in what you ask her to do and always reward her try with release of pressure. It's rewarding to see progress when you are working with a horse.
    I would encourage you to take the offer of help. I certainly have had times I needed help and was so grateful for the help of a friend.
    tinyliny and LittlemanRob like this.
         
        10-18-2013, 10:19 AM
      #27
    Trained
    Not all mares stop cycling in September... There is no majik cut off. Some cycle all year round.
    LittlemanRob and MsBHavin like this.
         
        10-18-2013, 04:12 PM
      #28
    Started
    I think that its a good idea to start with the basics. I am not a huge fan of "natural horsemanship" but I think looking into someone like clinton anderson or pareli might be helpful because it would give you a place to start. She is a horse, a small one, but a horse. She needs to be treated like a horse.

    If you have decided to just let nature be nature than you have about eleven months to really get this mare into shape. Which means that you have a relationship to start from if she become aggressive when she has her foal. If you decide to keep this mare in foal (because if she is not already she will be soon), than you need to read up on mare/foal care. Which means get to know your vet well and have a plan for an emergency. You also need to start her on an appropriate diet and get her on a vaccination/worming schedule.

    Mini's are known for having trouble delivering. The most common issue they have is either mal-positioning or red bag. The red bag is just when the placenta detatches prematurely and the foal either dies or suffers brain damage (which often leads to euthanasia). The foal is only viable for about 45 minutes after labor starts. Which is why, if you have a poorly positioned foal (head back, one leg back etc) you end up removing a dead foal so you can save the mare. In normal sized horses, this can mean cutting the foal up and removing it piece by piece. In a mini, the vets hand won't be big enough, so its often just euthanizing the mare and foal. I don't say these things to be morbid but to let you know that breeding mini's is not for the faint of heart and you need to be prepared for what can lay down the road. Which is why so many have suggested that you geld the stallion and let him be with the mare without the risk of pregnancy.
    LittlemanRob likes this.
         
        10-18-2013, 07:31 PM
      #29
    Foal
    Rookie: Thank you for your very helpful post about the reproductive issue.. Now I better understand why people are so concerned. You explained it to me without leaving me feeling like I was being attacked.

    Dustbunny, NdAppy and others, thank you for advise on their behaviour. I'll need to figure out whether its fear or witchiness. I'm leaning toward witchiness. At first I attributed to hormonal and heat. Also because the rehoming was stressful and the change from her normal environment has her confused. I cut her too much slack. She needs to learn to respect me and never kick so I will get tough with her . I'll round pen her with assistance from my friends if still possible.

    I came here for advise because there are very few mini owners in my area. None of which I know personally. The person who gave me much of my advise breeds quality quarter horses. I understand them to know quite a bit about horses. However, they don't have minis or any experience with them. Some of the big horse owners seem to have an attitude that minis are not "real horses". Lots of western working horse hobbyists. They often seem to see horses as a tools and not like pets. Either that or they hide it well.

    Mine are pets. I have no intention of selling them or a foal if we have one. I did intend to breed him down the road to a suitable mare. He is a very unique looking little fellow. His personality and disposition are fantastic. They only way he could be better is he'd need to be 15 hands tall. I spend a lot of time with him.

    She is essentially a rescue. Given away by someone who didn't want the responsibility anymore or just lost interest. Around here unwanted horses often end up at the zoo as meat for the lions. He needed a companion because I felt he was lonely since his buddy died. So I took her on. I've rescued many dogs and have done very well. My current dog is a rescue. They stay with me until they die, usually of old age. I don't give them away or sell them. I'll do the same with my horses.

    I agree she is too young to breed. The big horse owners think its fine when they do it but now I see they don't know critical details about minis. I will see if the vet around here even knows what a lute is.
         
        10-18-2013, 10:19 PM
      #30
    Green Broke
    The kill pens right now are full of minis...going to slaughter.

    Cannot understand why you did this. Just wrong on so many counts.

    As to the advice you've gotten from other people with horses?

    Just wrong on so many counts.

    She is spoiled. That is the problem.
    NdAppy and GreySorrel like this.
         

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