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Mini filly kicking and other behaviour issues

This is a discussion on Mini filly kicking and other behaviour issues within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        10-18-2013, 09:32 PM
      #31
    Trained
    You need to treat her as you would a large horse that is acting that way. Small size does not negate the fact they are horses and can be just as dangerous as a fullsized horse.

    Please geld the stud while you're at it. Like Palomine said, minis are all over in the kill pens. If you are still determined to breed... Do you know what to look for in genetics? Do you know what he could pass on if bred? Is he a dwarf carrier or showing dwarf characteristics? The list goes on and on and on. It's way, WAY more extensive for minis than the full size due not only to the MAJOR complications that they can have in foaling, but due to the enormous amount of genetic defects that are known in the breed...
         
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        10-18-2013, 10:40 PM
      #32
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Palomine    
    The kill pens right now are full of minis...going to slaughter.

    Cannot understand why you did this. Just wrong on so many counts.

    As to the advice you've gotten from other people with horses?

    Just wrong on so many counts.

    She is spoiled. That is the problem.
    Why I did what? Take a mini that was probably going to slaughter if I didn't take her?

    I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with some peoples responses.. like yours for example.

    I'm trying to rectify the situation. I've already separated the two of them and I will talk to the vet tomorrow about lutes in case she is pregnant. What more am I supposed to do?

    I had some maybe not so good advise from the only horse people I know. I didn't come here to be crucified for it.

    NdAppy: I will look more into genetics and problems before I decide to geld him or mate him. I can keep them separated indefinitely until I figure it out. Its not like I don't have the space for it.

    I almost regret asking for help here. People seem to be more interested in judging than helping.
         
        10-18-2013, 10:47 PM
      #33
    Teen Forum Moderator
    They really are trying to help Littlemanrob, its just that this is a situation we've seen over and over again so we tend to be...harsh.

    I'm very glad that you're trying to take advice and keep an open mind, and that you've separated the two. Please do ask your vet about the lute. Pregnancy in a two year old never ends well. And I'm glad you took the filly from the situation she was in. Life on a stake is no life.
         
        10-18-2013, 11:05 PM
      #34
    Trained
    No one is trying to be rude or harsh, but this type of situation pops up all the time on the forum and it does get a little repetitive. So much of the "fluffy would never breed pooky!" and on and on.

    Everyone wants to see what is best for the horses and not have them end up on bad situations or the mare to die in foaling. Miniature horse breeding is not for the faint of heart.

    The lute shot usually costs around $10-15, but it can vary on the area.

    If you really want to have a companion in with your stud/want to keep him a stud, get a gelding to put with him, BUT be aware with a mare on the property you might end up having to keep him by himself. It just depends. One of those things you would need to keep an eye on.
         
        10-18-2013, 11:13 PM
      #35
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Endiku    
    They really are trying to help Littlemanrob, its just that this is a situation we've seen over and over again so we tend to be...harsh.

    I'm very glad that you're trying to take advice and keep an open mind, and that you've separated the two. Please do ask your vet about the lute. Pregnancy in a two year old never ends well. And I'm glad you took the filly from the situation she was in. Life on a stake is no life.
    Thanks Endiku.

    People here may have seen this situation over and over again but I haven't. I'm a novice horse owner with very little experience and no support from any experienced mini owners. I constantly get conflicting advise.

    I called my friend the horse breeder with the round pen and they think I'm nuts listening to people on the internet. Now I feel like they are judging me for second guessing their advise. I felt so uncomfortable that I didn't bother asking about the round pen work for her.

    So I'm backing to slogging this out alone.
         
        10-18-2013, 11:20 PM
      #36
    Teen Forum Moderator
    For what its worth, I was in the same situation a couple of years ago. I had a 7-8 month old mini filly that bit, kicked, lunged with bared teeth, etc. I came to the forum thinking I was queen of the world (granted, I was very young...typical kid. LOL) and got my butt whooped HARD. I was basically told I was either going to get myself or my horse killed...or both. It was hard to suck it up and realize I was in a pickle and get help, but I did and that filly is now a beautifully behaved, 5 year old mini driving horse.

    People in my town thought (and still think) I'm nutso for listening to a forum of strangers, but I'm living proof that these people know what they're talking about. I was actually able to influence my community regarding horse healthy and nutrition (around here everyone feeds sweet feed or all stock feed) and my mare is great now. She hasn't tried to kick or bite in two years. The forum has also helped me rehab a VERY sick, VERY thin filly who I otherwise wouldn't have known how to help.

    I know we're strangers, and I know this is all new and weird to you, but try not to shut us out just yet. We're really not a bad group of people once you get to know us, and we all love our animals. I think that's why we react as quickly as we do.
         
        10-18-2013, 11:20 PM
      #37
    Trained
    She respects fences yes? Then you don't necessarily need a round pen.

    Fence off a small area for her and keep her in there and work with her. Handle her. Treat her like a full sized horse in regards to behavior. You cannot let her get away with anything. The old "give an inch and they'll take a mile" saying is so very true.

    If I were you I would make a post in the training section asking for help/suggestions. You're going to have to treat her as if she doesn't know anything and start from square one. Forget about how she has been treated in the past. Dwelling on that will make it harder to move forward with training.

    If she's kicking out and biting at you when she is loose in the pen with you, take a crop in there and smack her a good one with it when she kicks out. It's a three second rule, just like with toddlers, you have three seconds from the misbehavior to reprimand. Anything past that point is pointless as they don't connect it. You'll get more advice in training stuff in the training section though.
         
        10-18-2013, 11:37 PM
      #38
    Foal
    Thanks again Endiku.

    NdAppy. Yes, she respects the fence and so does he for that matter. Is there any reason why they can't be kept in adjoining pastures with a very powerful electric fence as I did when I first brought her here? I can keep them out of sight of each other but would rather not if the fence is enough to separate them. So far it has been, despite the people that think he may have bred her through it or will.

    Thanks for the info about the lute shot. I am assuming the vet will know what I'm talking about when I ask them.

    Tonight when I went to feed her she tried keeping her butt to me ready for kicking. I smacked her with the lead rope until she tried to scoot by me and managed to grab her halter before she got away. I made her stand while I lightly touched her all over with my hands. She is extremely twitchy. Her muscles were very tense and with each touch she would twitch and constantly try to turn her butt toward me. I kept control over her head and didn't stop touching her until she relaxed and stopped twitching. I gave her a treat and let her go. She didn't bother to eat her supper, she ran right out the door. Was that a good way to start?
         
        10-19-2013, 11:15 AM
      #39
    Foal
    Called the vet this morning and discussed my reproductive problem with him.

    In contrast to the comments from some people here, he is not concerned about her age. He says that minis are full grown at age 2 and there is no additional risk for foaling because of her age or because she is a mini. He says in large horses early pregnancy is associated with greater risks because they are not full grown until age 4 or so. He says the biggest concern here is the fact that minis tend to put on far more weight than a full size horse and can cause a narrowing of the birth canal. Very important to not let them get fat, which is a problem most of the time for minis.

    He says he can do the lutacyte shot if I feel I am not ready. He says there are increased risks using luta because she is a mini and it is really hard to give the correct dose due to their small size. They give 3 shots over a 6 day period. Once shot every second day. After the shot they have to be monitored for colic as the luta will cause them to colic and the minis are at greater risk.

    He is coming out monday to evaluate my horses.

    Now I have even more confusing and conflicting information.
         
        10-19-2013, 12:05 PM
      #40
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LittlemanRob    
    Called the vet this morning and discussed my reproductive problem with him.
    Good for calling!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LittlemanRob    
    In contrast to the comments from some people here, he is not concerned about her age. He says that minis are full grown at age 2 and there is no additional risk for foaling because of her age or because she is a mini. He says in large horses early pregnancy is associated with greater risks because they are not full grown until age 4 or so. He says the biggest concern here is the fact that minis tend to put on far more weight than a full size horse and can cause a narrowing of the birth canal. Very important to not let them get fat, which is a problem most of the time for minis.
    That right there makes me want to tell you to run far and fast from this vet. Just because a miniature horse is smaller does not mean they mature/stop growing any faster than any other size/breed of horse. Miniatures actually have MORE, many, many more foaling/breeding complications and issues than any other breed/type of horse out there! Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional. Yes, minis tend to be air ferns. That just means just like with larger horses, you have to monitor their diet.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LittlemanRob    
    He says he can do the lutacyte shot if I feel I am not ready. He says there are increased risks using luta because she is a mini and it is really hard to give the correct dose due to their small size. They give 3 shots over a 6 day period. Once shot every second day. After the shot they have to be monitored for colic as the luta will cause them to colic and the minis are at greater risk.

    He is coming out monday to evaluate my horses.

    Now I have even more confusing and conflicting information.
    Yes lutalyse causes symptoms that appear colic like as it causes the horse to short cycle and come back into heat and aborting any pregnancy that they may have. The symptoms are short timed and do not cause any lasting effect. It's essentially the morning after "pill" for horses.
         

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