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Mini filly kicking and other behaviour issues

This is a discussion on Mini filly kicking and other behaviour issues within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        10-19-2013, 02:06 PM
      #41
    Foal
    NdAppy. I don't have much choice in vets. This clinic is the only large animal vet in a 50 mile radius. Running away isn't much of an option here.

    Regardless of their opinions on whether or not she is safe to have a foal, I am having them come out to evaluate them anyways. I will make my decision on the luta at that time. I did not intend to have a foal at this time so I am leaning towards having the injections anyways. They did say the colic symptoms would be short lived and they just need supervision after the injection to prevent them from lying down or rolling, since they say the horse reaction to the luta is the problem, not the luta itself.

    He also said that it is possible the shots won't work, but if they don't the shots themselves won't cause any problems for the fetus if it doesn't abort.

    This vet also says that because of the seasonal climate here, its possible her cycles won't end till November or possibly not at all.
         
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        10-19-2013, 02:28 PM
      #42
    Super Moderator
    I think you are going to struggle with this mare as long as you have a stallion around - even in the next field he's still there and they can smell each other
    There are mares that are no problem around stallions and there are mares that are complete witches.
    When she's in season you're going to have two very frustrated ponies pacing up and down the fence and getting really irritable about the situation
    Get the stallion gelded so he can enjoy a normal life and then you can deal with the mare - though you might find her behavior changes once he's lost his manhood.
    She might have a cyst problem that's causing her to be so aggressive - could need checking out too
         
        10-19-2013, 03:09 PM
      #43
    Super Moderator
    OP, I think you are doing a great job of trying to sort out a lot of conflicting and strong advice. It seems you made a mistake, quite possibly, resulting in the likely pregnancy of the filly. Well, here's my thoughts;

    You wanted to breed that stud, right? Well, you probably did. So, allow the foal to be born, geld the stud and work on the filly's behavior issues, and, ultimately, either keep all three as pets, or look to rehome one of them (now well trained) after the baby is here. And if baby is a colt, geld him so you can have a peaceful "herd".


    With the filly, look at making her respectful at you at feeding time. That is the first place to start. Work at requiring her respect before you give her a drop of food. Never allow her to come in take a bite until you have moved her away, stood over the food 'claimed' it, then, after making her wait, move off and allow her at it.
    Then yoiu do the same thing, but you go up and pet her before allowing her to have at the hay. I don't know if you said she was aggressive at food time, but getting her a bit hungry and using access to food as a reward for submission will be a good starting point.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=xfFxYgY_5g0
    franknbeans and rookie like this.
         
        10-19-2013, 05:56 PM
      #44
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LittlemanRob    
    NdAppy. I don't have much choice in vets. This clinic is the only large animal vet in a 50 mile radius. Running away isn't much of an option here.
    I drove my deformed Shetland colt 2 hours to a Veterinary hospital in another STATE to try to improve the condition of his legs.

    It is possible to trailer to another vet outside of the one that you are currently using, to obtain a second opinion on things that seem a little bit off, or for example done "because that's the way it's always been done".
         
        10-19-2013, 06:57 PM
      #45
    Started
    I have reservations about your vets advice. Mini's are different than "normal sized" horses. If they are not really common to your area than your vet may not be familiar with them and their various reproductive quirks. While yes, technically a two year old is a mature horse its sort of like saying a 17 year old is a mature human. Yes, they are the adult size; however, mentally they are in a different place. I don't think you need to change vets because sometimes that is not an option. I know the two hour trailer ride is warrented in some cases, but at 2 am who is showing up at your farm to help? Probably not that guy who is a two hour trailer ride away.

    I like tiny's idea. I think its worth it to see if the mare is pregnant and then either keep her in foal and geld the stallion or keep them separate. The thing is that some stallions once the have sealed the deal and figured out what fun their parts are, can become really tricky and determined. Likewise, some mares in heat have no shame. Thus, one motivated boy plus one motivated girl could lead to a blessed union that results in a motivated baby. Which is one plus to gelding the stud. While there are lots of horses in slaughter pens around the world, I would not use that as the only reason not to breed. The presence of thousands of thoroughbred's being sent to slaughter is not stopping Calumet or Stonestreet from putting mares in foal. The bigger issue is that mares and foals are expensive, the OP is still learning the mini world and they may not want a horse they bred (accident or intentional) to end up at slaughter. In which case, the best option is gelding.

    I also know how you feel about getting internet advice. I like to keep that little side of things on down low. Mostly because you can get really great advice or horrible advice. You say internet horse advice and it brings out the skeptics.

    That is why looking into some well known horse trainers might be good. It can be a good insight into a horses mind. People like Buck Brenneman, Clinton Anderson, or Parelli are all good places to start that might help you help your horse. I know that a lot of folks don't care for the DVDs and I think that following any one person to the extreme is harmful, but it can provide a good step stone, that would allow you to build your confidence with this little mare.
         
        10-19-2013, 08:21 PM
      #46
    Teen Forum Moderator
    Miniatures also need constant supervision late in the last trimester of their pregnancy because their birth canals or pelvises are all too often too small for the foal and the foal gets stuck. If you don't notice that way, it can end up in the death of both mare and foal or at very least an infection in the mare's uterus.


    Minis are definitely NOT mature as two year olds. The biggest immaturity about them at that age is that they aren't as filled out and 'wide' as they are at four and older, which means their pelvis is going to SUPER small. They may be as tall as they're ever going to be, and capable of foaling, but it doesn't mean they should. You could get lucky and have a good birth, or you could get very unlucky and lose both of them. Also, if you keep the foal you are going to need a foaling area with very safe fencing that is FAR from the stallion. You likely won't be able to put the foal and mare in together with the stallion ever.


    All of that said just to let you know what you're in for if she is pregnant and you keep the foal. I think it is a good idea for you to have the vet out to see the mare for himself and to discuss it fully with him, then decide from there.

    As for all of you who think getting rid of the vet is necessary, I have to disagree. My vet knows absolutely nothing about minis (he suggested that I put my mini mare on constant grass to fatten her up when she was thin, and told me they didn't have dietary restrictions) but that doesn't mean he's a bad vet. On the contrary, I think he's a big part of the reason Kenzie, my filly, is alive and healthy. He came and checked on her more than he had to in order to see who she was doing, for free, and he got her through EHV when she was already EXTREMELY sick with a careful strategy. That is no little feat. He's also been great with handling our more skittish horses and is very good at detecting illnesses and lameness. Just because he doesn't know everything there is to know about a certain breed of horse (remember, he works with 6+ species every single day) doesn't mean he's a worthless vet, it just means I should get a second or third opinion on treatment of my mini before doing anything.
    NdAppy and rookie like this.
         
        10-19-2013, 08:32 PM
      #47
    Green Broke
    Would you consider getting a trainer out there, or someone more experienced with minis to help you? I think you would both benefit from it, for sure. She cannot continue to behave the way she is.

    In regards to the reproductive bit... I think keeping them together was a bit silly, but that bottom line is that they are your horses. If you want a little baby mini, and it's one that you plan to keep, then I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon with everyone else.

    It's commendable of you to come on here and ask for help when you need it.
         
        10-19-2013, 09:29 PM
      #48
    Foal
    If I do go through with her pregnancy, be assured I will be keeping careful eye on her and have the vet out for regular checks. I am asking the vet to check my stud while he is here and ask about signs of dwarfism and other genetic issues.

    I am not going to assume my the vet is 100% right in any case on anything. I have had enough contact with vets and animals over the years that I don't trust any of them implicitly. If I think something is off I will say so and seek independent opinions. I do the same for my own health and the rest of my families health.

    Tinytiny: She hasn't been aggressive with her food at all. I can feed her by hand. She will always come to me but when she does she doesn't want to be touched. Even with food in front of her, if I'm not holding her she will either run away or turn her butt to me if I tried to pet her.

    Today I spent a long time working with her. I brought a nice treat with me and when she was eating from my hand I attached her lead. She tried to turn her butt to me but I cracked her good with the crop every time she attempted to turn. She gave up on that and just started trying to run away. Good enough. So I let her run in circles around me and cracked her every time she tried to get her butt to me. She soon tired of that and finally stopped and faced me. I petted her and told her she was good and gave her another treat.

    So off to the barn we went. I tied her up and started touching her everywhere with various objects. The crop, another lead line, brushes, my hand, whatever. She didn't try to kick me but was very twitchy for the first 10 minutes or so. She is especially sensitive around her flanks, belly and rump. You can see her body twitch when being touched. After the twitching stopped I brushed her, combed her mane and tale, cleaned her feet (which she picked up nicely without kicking) and even wiped her legs down with a wet cloth and warm water since she is a bit muddy. It went very well. Gave her another treat and sent her on her way.

    I just came in from the barn tonight from feeding and she was quite a bit better. She came into the barn on her own and didn't turn her butt to me or try to run away when I tried touching her while she ate. While she ate her supplement I walked around her and cleaned things up and got hay and she didn't act sketchy at all.

    On a whim I decided to bring the little stud in when she was done with her supplement. She was fine with him as well. She neighed a little when she first saw him coming in but she made room for him beside the hay pile and they ate quietly together. After she was done I put her back out on her side of the pasture.
    rookie likes this.
         
        10-19-2013, 09:34 PM
      #49
    Teen Forum Moderator
    Good! It sounds like she is beginning to learn a valuable lesson from you. Kicking is NEVER the correct answer, and standing quietly means rest. Its good that she lets you handle her feet, that was a BIG no no with my mare when I first got her. She was super sensitive (especially on her right side) as well, and it just took a lot patience to get her over it. I found that firm touches seem to go better than light touches, which feel annoying and ticklish on some of their skin.
         
        10-19-2013, 10:03 PM
      #50
    Foal
    You're just being mean franknbeans. Your input is not needed or welcome so please go away.
    HorseLovinLady likes this.
         

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