Mustang and Wild Horses Help - Page 2
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Keeping and Caring for Horses > Horse Talk

Mustang and Wild Horses Help

This is a discussion on Mustang and Wild Horses Help within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

    Like Tree67Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        03-25-2014, 10:41 PM
      #11
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by usandpets    
    Maybe the government should force people to give up their land and relocate so there is more land for them to roam. Would you be willing to hand over land that you've worked hard for or had for generations in your family for nothing in return? Does the government keep forcing people to move as the wild horses keep over populating the area the have?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    That has been suggested. Again and again. But, it is never their land. Only places in the west where some people perceive no one lives anyway. And then the poor feral horses would overpopulate that, too.

    Good grief.
    COWCHICK77 and Cherie like this.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        03-25-2014, 10:46 PM
      #12
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by usandpets    
    Maybe the government should force people to give up their land and relocate so there is more land for them to roam. Would you be willing to hand over land that you've worked hard for or had for generations in your family for nothing in return? Does the government keep forcing people to move as the wild horses keep over populating the area the have?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    If we did that I think the only thing we'd have left is Washington ... (Until the horses turn on 'em)
         
        03-25-2014, 10:51 PM
      #13
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boots    
    That has been suggested. Again and again. But, it is never their land. Only places in the west where some people perceive no one lives anyway. And then the poor feral horses would overpopulate that, too.

    Good grief.
    I wasn't trying to be serious. It was a sarcastic suggestion.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        03-26-2014, 12:08 AM
      #14
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by usandpets    
    I wasn't trying to be serious. It was a sarcastic suggestion.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    I figured you were, but thought I'd head off that suggestion here.


    IF the "mustangs" are America's horse, the icon of the West, and all that, then the American people had better start acting like responsible horse owners and prevent unnecessary suffering by them.

    That requires the hard decisions all us horse owners make (ie. How many we can care for), and the even more difficult decisions faces by breeders.
         
        03-26-2014, 01:18 AM
      #15
    Yearling
    The only reason mustangs are starving is because the cattle people lease land from the BLM. The cattle farmers over graze that land, and then the mustangs starve. The problem is overpopulation of cattle.

    As late as the 1800s, there were an estimated 2 million wild horses across the western states alongside tens of millions of bison and other grazing species. Meanwhile, livestock production began to skyrocket in the 1850s and 1860s. As numbers of domestic cattle reached 35-40 million head, mustang numbers plummeted alongside numbers of other grazing species and predator species.

    Since the Wild Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act passed, rangeland designated for wild horses and burros has declined by 21.5 million acres. Today, there are fewer than 35,000 wild horses on some 27 million acres of federally managed land while millions of head of privately-owned cattle graze across some 245 million acres of public lands, including those acres designated for wild horses.
    KigerQueen likes this.
         
        03-26-2014, 01:36 AM
      #16
    Yearling
    Please notice, these horses aren't on people's private lands. They are on land owned by the federal government. The BLM leases that land out to farmers for extremely "cheap" rates.

    The only reason humans need to control the horse population is so that more cattle can graze on the land.

    There is an island off of Georgia called Cumberland Island. There is a herd of about 150 horses that live there. The island is a preserve and there is no "herd management" or any interference by people. It is pretty neat, as you can camp there. The horses are used to people and you can walk up within 10 feet of them and take pictures. The population is controlled by natural selection (limited resources). Lack of grazing seems to be the primary factor. The horses do get skinny during the winter, but they gain that weight back during the spring and summer. It appears horses can do quite well without human interference and our ideas of "population control". There are also wild deer, and turkey on that island.

    Last time I went, I saw a bachelor band, and farther down the trail I ran into a small band with a beautiful appaloosa stallion and his mares and foals. It was pretty amazing!
    KigerQueen likes this.
         
        03-26-2014, 03:28 AM
      #17
    Started
    They are not over grazing. The cattle is overgrazing and the large herds of sheep are not helping. They overestimate the populations and round up WAY more horses than is safe for their genetic health. If the population is to low, then the inbreeding rate will increase until they are nothing more than sickly inbred mutts. 20k+ horses in the wild to the 50k+ in captivity is not ok. There are millions of acres set aside for the horses. Apparently the blms math is 1 horse per 100k (i may be underestimating that) acres in some of the rangelands. The BLM has been fudging numbers and using science that doesn't make sense.

    My take on it is let them be. By law they are protected like the bald eagle but yet we round them up and lock them away. When range conditions get bad we don't round up the deer and coyotes. You know what happens to them? They die, plain and simple. If the range cannot support them they will die, and feed various predators until the population stabilizes itself.

    All the pics and vids I see of the mustangs they are fat and healthy. People who own mustangs will know they are air ferns so what looks like sparse land to us if fine for them. I understand there is some level of population maintenance but there are ways to do it. Proud cutting studs is a way. They still have their jewels and act lke studs but they are shooting blanks. Doing that to a band stallion will cut down the breeding rate as long as he holds mares. The animals live free, and the population growth is kept to a min. They could also round up 1-2 year olds as well. Its easier to place a young horse than an older horse. The old ones live out their lives free and the young stock are placed in homes. There are solutions but the blm just wants to get payed. They won't talk about the mustangs sente to slaughter even though its against federal law. They won't talk about all the foals that die during the roundups or the horses that die as a result of being ran 10 miles at a time.

    Using Science to Improve the BLM Wild Horse and Burro Program: A Way Forward
    dkb811 and MinervaELS like this.
         
        03-26-2014, 08:16 AM
      #18
    Green Broke
    Cattle are not allowed on the BLM, Fed, state, and reservation lands except in very controlled numbers and for very limited amounts of time.

    While an owner of the cattle may pay for 250 head to run for 6 weeks on a grazing allotment, those numbers are frequently reduced due to less forage for the feral horses, antelope, deer, elk, etc. But, he agreed to pay the price for the original agreement and does.

    The owner of the cattle also has to maintain water, fence the public land in whatever way the leasing agency thinks will encourage the feral horses and wildlife to migrate in a way that is in the best interest of those animals.

    In addition, the cattle/sheep ranchers have to keep records of what types of grasses and other forage is available, improve water resources, repair erosion (even if it not caused by their animals).

    And, feral horses and wildlife don't look at maps. They spend plenty of time on private property. We don't really mind. We like seeing them. We're kind of proud of ourselves for being able to provide water and browse for all the animals here.

    Just in reasonable numbers.

    And, if any of those animals do spend time on one's private property, the owner or the employees cannot just herd them off. That is harassment of wildlife and is against the law. You have to document how much time, how much they are using of your grass, water, damage to water and apply to get approval for help to discourage them from being on your place.
         
        03-26-2014, 05:11 PM
      #19
    Foal
    Well I'm about to say something unpopular.

    Mustangs are feral animals. They are no different than a feral dog. Both live shorter lives in the wild but still reproduce enough offspring to more than make up for their parents. They both are non native species that are only there because of careless people. Both can live healthier lives in captivity, along side people.

    I think the BLM should invest a large sum of money into catching all mustangs and either serialize every last one (or males at least) and release them back out. Or catch them all and find them homes and/or have a sanctuary for them until that is possible. Wild Mustangs should be a thing of the past. They aren't wild animals. They are feral horses.

    That said, I don't like the idea of using helicopters and other unsafe practices to round them up. Mustangs make great saddle horses and I don't want them to end as a breed. I definitely don't want them all slaughtered. If the BLM would invest in the removal of wild horses all at once they would no longer need to budget that in year after year.
    Golden Horse likes this.
         
        03-26-2014, 05:28 PM
      #20
    Weanling
    It's quite interesting, they've been attempting a contraceptive scheme on Dartmoor ponies in my home county, as there is a huge wastage crisis at the moment. It's a very difficult situation, as no one likes to see all these foals getting rounded up and sent to slaughter with little to no chance at life, but at the same time, there is no demand for these ponies any more as there used to be, and the wild population is now suffering.

    They trialled a contraceptive jab in 2012 on a small number of mares, and it seemed to work really well, but they're struggling to get the land to run it on more mares. It's a constant battle, because no one really claims ownership for the ponies, as they are on common land, so no one really wants to pay for them - for the government, it's cheaper for them to go to slaughter.

    There are a few schemes working tirelessly to try and make life better for them though, either through contraception, or making people more aware of what brilliant kids ponies these guys make - just the right combination of sweet nature, and devil-brilliance to keep a kid on its toes

    Either way, I guess it's comparable to your mustangs - something needs to be done, and, as harsh as it may seem, it might be culling some of the significant stallions, then reducing the number of breeding colts coming through and claiming herds.

    BBC News - Dartmoor pony contraceptive scheme at risk

    Dartmoor ponies on Dartmoor - they used to be used to carry convicts to Dartmoor prison, which was unreachable by road, and supposedly impossible to break out of, as you would die before you reached civilisation - how bada** is that?!

         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Mustang and Wild Horses Mustang Mare Horse Breeds 4 04-08-2014 01:27 PM
    Can you truly tame a wild mustang? wildspirit Horse Training 29 01-18-2010 10:47 PM
    My Wild Mustang Maggie horsecrazy29 Horse Videos 2 07-27-2008 02:02 PM
    wild mustang fever iffy2good Horse Videos 1 03-07-2008 06:16 PM
    Wild Mustang owner in Michigan dutch Meet the Community 10 02-12-2008 03:48 AM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:04 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0