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My horse just killed a dog. Need some advice.

5K views 41 replies 26 participants last post by  Yogiwick 
#1 ·
My dad's uncle just came over with his wife. I was opening the gate and wasn't told a dog was with them. The dog went in the gate as I opened it this was a chihuahua old thing it waddled right up to my mare. She snaked after it then stomped it. The dog is dead.
This is my first horse. I knew what was happening. I told them to call the dog I got a response of "She'll be fine." over and over. I warned them and I had my hands full moving goats at the time and it happened so fast. I knew as soon as my mares head went down what she was going to do and I couldn't stop it.

My issue is I dont know how to feel, I really dont know how to feel or what to do, I worried maybe they would want to kill my mare for being 'vicious'.
I know she wasn't being aggressive but defensive of me and my goats because after that happened she came up and stood behind me like nothing had happened. She hit the dog once with her front hoof nothing more. She's never been aggressive around my own dogs ether.

This really has me shaken up do I need to prepare or do anything?
Like legally do I need to do anything? I could use some encouragement too because I'm really shaken if you've been in this situation.
 
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#2 ·
Be prepared, just in case.

It wasn't really your fault as the dogs owners did not listen to you, so they were negligent in this instance.

Chihuahua's are tiny dogs and not always careful when they should be. I'm a fan of the breed, but I also know how they can be, they generally have no fear of things they should be afraid of.

This dog was old, and I'll assume a loved family pet. I would offer to do something for the family, like a memorial stone to try and smooth over any hard feelings.

It is generally accepted that small dogs should not be around livestock because of this. But not every owner is going to be cautious in new situations.
 
#4 ·
They were just crying and in shock like all of us after it happened. They rushed her to a vet she died on the way. They came back and told us she died and went to take her home everyone is still in shock over this I think and if anything legal happens it wont be till later on when they have time to think about it.

I feel horrible this happened. I'll look into something to give them I'm not sure what but something.
 
#7 ·
Your liable for what your horse does....I know two of my horses, one being a draft, is not very good with dogs, I have one of my own who is with me all the time. I will yell or growl at my horse, I am always telling them NO when they show any signs of hostility or negativity toward a dog.

If you knew the dog was with you at the gate, why didn't you try to grab the dog or grabbed the dog and closed the gate and took it back so it wasn't in harms way?! I realize it wasn't your dog, you warned them but you did nothing to prevent this senseless accident. I personally would be horrified and mortified and very ashamed I didn't do something.
 
#9 ·
I DID read your post....You said "I knew what was happening" so that leads me to believe you knew.
 
#10 ·
I knew what was happening when she put her head down I knew she was going to hurt it but they weren't close enough I could have done anything and I had two goats in my hands. Hard to be crystal clear over the internet sorry if I confused you but trust me if she had been close enough I'd have done something. Regardless I already consider myself at fault here even if I couldn't do anything my horse killed the dog. I just dont want my mare hurt over it.
 
#11 ·
I would suggest actually contacting either an attorney with knowledge of animal laws or even animal control and asking (not hiring, just talking.) if you would be liable if another persons pet/ animal was injured or killed on your property by livestock.

This would give you a good understanding if anything does come up. If they cannot help you, they likely can refer you to someone who could.

But the fact that the dog was off leash on another persons property would likely work to your benefit.

You never know how some people will react, and what they might say or do when a pet is injured/ killed. Nowadays it's hard to tell what would happen to your mare, hopefully nothing since the owners were negligent in containing a dog on strange property.
 
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#12 ·
As far as liability is concerned, I believe it varies from state to state. In my opinion, and if you were in my state, you are not liable. Being on an equine facility, visitors acknowledge the inherent risks.
You warned them and they didn't listen. With Chihuahuas, the horse didn't even need to be being aggressive for it to be accidentally injured/maimed/killed. An accidental blow from the horse simply walking over the dog could have had the same consequence.
Even if your state has different laws and you are interpreted as being liable, I don't believe your horse would be put down, like an aggressive dog might. That just seems out of line to me. If the horse were aggressive to people, perhaps, but not a small dog.

Seeing as this is family, I would hope it doesn't come down to legal action. I do think that you should get a memorial of some sort for them, be it a portrait, or a grave stone. Something to show goodwill and remorse for the situation. I hope they understand that these sorts of things happen when big and little animals mix, and it isn't really any one's fault.
 
#13 ·
Grey Sorrel, you are being exceedingly harsh blaming the OP.

This was not an accident it was totally the dog owners fault. They were warned to keep their dog with them. They ignored this.
The OP was busy with the gate and goats, unable to stop what was going to happen, I am sure had she had the horses haltered and at the gate and the horse threatened the dog she would have been able to stop it.

I have had this sort of thing happen to me. People arrive amd let their dogs wander. The horses I had were well use to dogs but a strange one needed investigating and they would push and barge to get to it. I had a couple that were fine with my dogs but would attack a strange one.

It happens. Only the owners fault.
 
#14 ·
Well excuse me for being so non PC about this, but anyone who lets their dog out around horses is totally responsible for what happens next, whether that is a dead dog or vet bills for the horses.

I am a serious dog lover, but some dogs and some horses need to be kept apart. When I'm riding down the road and a dog comes out a driveway on to the road I always have my horse chase it back to its driveway. I want my horse to know that the dog has to lose that confrontation every time. The alternative could be me getting dumped, or a horse/vehicle accident while the horse panics.

Three years ago my horses killed a fox in the pasture. While that was sad, it was preferable to them running through the fence.

It's too bad about the chihuahua, but I'd give your mare a pat and an apple and tell her what a good girl she was.
 
#15 ·
This was the dog owners fault. PERIOD.

The dog should have been on a leash. Your horse was behind a fence, correct?

They entered the property without telling you they had a dog, and they failed to control the dog. It is their responsibility to control their animal. Your horse was protecting its property.

If they didn't have a leash they could have picked the dog up.

Someone once did this at a horse show. They had one of those super long leashes. The puppy caught its leash around a horses hind legs and was kicked in the head. Died instantly.

Another time we took the horses swimming and had a similar experience. A couple of children "playing" in the horse area with one loose dog, and one tied on a long leash to a tree, while the parents watched. Their excuse was the human swimming area was "too weedy to swim in". Seriously?

Nothing happened, but I thought those people were idiots. Just the day prior, we had a horse spook and take off up the bank throwing its rider in the water. So what happens if a horse spooks and hits the kids? Or tries to take off up the bank and hits the dog leash? Or what if the loose dog scares the horses? An accident waiting to happen.

There was a reason there were 2 designated swimming areas! And the parents were oblivious that having their children and dog swim next to strange horses "might be" dangerous!
 
#17 ·
Legal liability and moral liability have little or no relation. If I was the dog's owner, I'd feel responsible. But that is a moral issue. There is an entire area of law that deals with liability, and each state handles things differently. A person would have to research North Carolina law and previous legal decisions to determine legal liability there.

Liability is normally limited to what someone has lost, so in the worst case, it probably would not exceed the fair value of the dog on the open market. If it really bothers the OP, then it would be a good idea to contact the local bar association and ask. Many bar associations have a referral system that will let you talk to a licensed attorney for some amount of time for a minimal, set fee - in Pima County AZ it used to be $35 for 30 minutes, don't know what it is now.
 
#18 ·
If the property was not the residence of the dog owner, it is the dog owner's fault for not having the dog on a leash. Especially an elderly small dog. I have small dogs and the thought of letting my tiny dog loose on a property, even a relatives property, that I do no live on is unthinkable. This is very sad, but not your fault.
 
#19 ·
Things happen, and when people don't listen? What can you do?... Back when I had two Belgians, they hated any animal that came in their field, they were raised in a wild herd and learned to kill or be killed. Literally, a pack of coyotes attacked a wondering foal and it got mangled up. Those two absolutely sweet and gentle giants would listen under saddle and in a halter but if it was in there field it was fair game. They killed a coyote "pup" after it's mom dug up a fresh grave from when we had to put down our beloved TWH, momma coyot ended up eating euthanizing meds and dying. I am so so so surprised my grandmothers Pomerans didnt get stomped, they would harass the horses like crazy and my grandma wouldn't listen at all. It was no fault of yours. I would get a grave stone or something, and I would hope to god that your uncle wouldn't start a law suit, and if so, then your family is to much like mine...
 
#20 ·
This appears to be the North Carolina State statute (county or city laws may differ)

Unit 9 – Liability for Livestock and Other Animals ARE 306

“Concerning livestock on the owner’s property, the owner is presumed to know the
general propensities of certain animals, even if his particular animal has not performed
dangerous or vicious acts. He must exercise due care to prevent injury from reasonably
anticipated conduct. For example, the owner has a duty to restrain his animal, if that breed of animal has general propensity towards viciousness, when he knows of visitors to
his property.”

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/are306/lecturenotes/Unit9NDoglaw.pdf

There is also this:
A few states still follow the old legal doctrine of "contributory negligence." Under this rule, someone who sues and is the least bit at fault can collect nothing. The contributory negligence states are:
Alabama
District of Columbia
Maryland
North Carolina
Virginia

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/dog-book/chapter9-3.html
 
#25 ·
This appears to be the North Carolina State statute (county or city laws may differ)

Unit 9 – Liability for Livestock and Other Animals ARE 306

“Concerning livestock on the owner’s property, the owner is presumed to know the
general propensities of certain animals, even if his particular animal has not performed
dangerous or vicious acts. He must exercise due care to prevent injury from reasonably
anticipated conduct. For example, the owner has a duty to restrain his animal, if that breed of animal has general propensity towards viciousness, when he knows of visitors to
his property.”

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/are306/lecturenotes/Unit9NDoglaw.pdf

There is also this:
A few states still follow the old legal doctrine of "contributory negligence." Under this rule, someone who sues and is the least bit at fault can collect nothing. The contributory negligence states are:
Alabama
District of Columbia
Maryland
North Carolina
Virginia

Liability for Injury to a Dog | Nolo.com

Thank you so much for this I was to panicked to look much up myself.
 
#23 ·
I have had people bring their dogs to my place. They have been told not to, as my horses do not like dogs. They have chased and kicked coyotes and dogs that were dumped on the property. My own dog knows to walk near the fence or a tree line. When they let their dog out, it is their problem. My wife cats walk around the horses and I can't believe that one of them have not been stepped on. Talk to you dad. Things should be ok.
 
#24 ·
Thank you everyone for the advice reading it all really helped me get over this faster and slowed my panic. I really appreciate your help.

My Dad went to talk to his uncle they're very torn up.
They dont blame us thankfully and said their dog was 16 and in quite a bit of pain for various reasons and that it might have been a blessing in disguise so she didn't have to suffer.
The vet says it was very fast and she likely didn't even feel it. I know I didn't even hear a whimper when it happened.

I plan to go and help them decorate her grave, plant flowers, a headstone if they will let me.
I know I dont have to but I seriously cried for that dog even though I didn't know it at all.

Just to answer a few questions that were asked though.

Yes my horse was in her fence.

No they dont live here they were just visiting
 
#26 ·
^^You are quite welcome. It will all work out okay. Best wishes to your grand aunt and uncle. It is always hard to loose a pet.
 
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#28 ·
Just wanted to show some support, as a horse lover and a dog lover...you did all the right things and clearly everything in your power to try to prevent this from happening. It's tragic that they didn't heed your warnings to call the dog back to them, as they very well might have been able to save the dog. Other than that, realistically there was nothing you could have done differently to change the outcome.

It's also definitely clear that your mare was not in the wrong. It's totally natural for a horse to defend itself against what it perceives as a dangerous predator. It's just not wise to let dogs, especially small ones, to run loose with horses because this is a well known fact.

It sounds like everything may have worked out for the best and hopefully the couple has learned a valuable lesson to move forward with any dogs they might have in the future.
 
#29 ·
I was always under the impression that the lives of livestock always trump those of dogs, at least legally. I know if my dog goes onto anyone elses property and bothers their livestock then they can shoot the dog, or if it's killed it's not their problem.

It's horrible what happened, I guess slightly better considering the dogs age and it's sickness but it's still horrible. It's good that they are not pursuing legal action.

However I do find it hard to believe that you could be legally at fault. The horse was restrained/contained in a dedicated paddock, the dog was loose and entered that area even after you warned the owners.

Morally I don't think you are at fault either. Dog owners need to be aware of their dogs and surroundings, and keep them away from harm. Letting a dog approach any unknown livestock should be avoided, and the more so after you told them. You can't feel responsible for the dog being hurt. You contained your mare, they didn't contain their dog. It's horrible what happened, and hopefully there won't be ill will between you all but don't hold this on yourself. You did everything needed I believe.
 
#30 ·
I would never let a dog off a leash on someone else's property or around livestock without asking first. However, it is a sad thing but it was an accident and it should not be about lying blame on anyone. Perhaps you can have a family member talk to them, explain how upset you are, and help smooth things over. Sending a nice card would be appropriate. I would do nothing else until I know how they are going to handle this.
 
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