need advice for a bad situation - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
 47Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 12:30 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 23,907
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnayc View Post
I don't see how using a stick is humane at all!
Depends on how one use it. When my horse tries to invade my space aggressively I have no problem what so ever to smack her shoulder or butt or neck (whatever is within my reach) with the stick (or the lead rope) to remind her her place. In fact I find stick to be more humane than chain (and I agree with kevin, I only use rope halter or flat halter, never had a need for the chain).

I do understand you may do/use because of what the owner does/shown you. But I think may be it's time just deal with the horse yourself (especially if you don't like what the owner did). And trainer's help is always great!

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."
kitten_Val is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 263
• Horses: 3
I have worked at several different barns and volunteer at a horse rescue and they all have used the chain over the nose. At first I didn't like it, but different people have told me that it is a way to keep horses from acting up. Also even at the rescue they have pulled the chain to teach a horse to stop what its doing. I'm not saying that I yanked it with all my might, but I did do a few firm tugs. I don't see why it is so bad. I see people all the time who have chains on their lunge lines and on their lead lines.
I feel it is easier on the horse than to whip them or hit them with other objects. My horse has always been trained this way, so that is the only reason I did it. I would never to that to my Arabian because he has never had it done. Please believe me that I am not trying to hurt my horse. I am trying to keep him from getting hurt by his other owner.
And in the situation where he was charging, I had to immediatly act to stop him, not just punish him. I don't hold any thing against him for it and I still love him to death. But he had to be stalled or else he would have crushed my goat and I. Even in the stall he was going nuts and trying to hard to get out. I got in with him and had him put his head down to get him to calm down. Not out of anger, but fear that he was going to hurt himself.
bnayc is offline  
post #23 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 12:35 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 5,455
• Horses: 1
If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten.
waresbear likes this.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
kevinshorses is offline  
post #24 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 12:35 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 23,907
• Horses: 2
bnayc, chain is a short cut to the correct training. Which is never a good thing. What if you don't have a chain around? What if you have to dismount on trail ride and lead the horse? I'm VERY surprised that all barns and rescues use it. That means one thing: they don't take the time to teach the horse the simplest basic thing - how to lead.

P.S. I haven't seen it in a single place I went to (even the places that have studs). I do see the need for it at times, but for very specific horses.

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."
kitten_Val is offline  
post #25 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 12:46 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 3,082
• Horses: 0
OP-
You are doing what the owner herself showed you to do (other than beating him). If her beating him is wrong, that calls into question that her whole approach to working with horses is not a correct method. Please listen to what the others have said. Just because putting the horse in a stall and forcing his head down for five minutes seems to "work", does not mean that it is the right way to handle the situation. Find a good trainer (trainers come in bad and good varieties just like owners) and learn proper training methods. We are here to learn, we make mistakes to learn from, and we are always learning new things all the time if we are open minded.
GreenBackJack likes this.
SunnyDraco is offline  
post #26 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 263
• Horses: 3
I normally don't even use my lead with a chain, vini is normally very well behaved horse. He has good ground manners and leads just fine without it. I am having a trainer come out on Friday, but what are some things that you use besides a chain? I'm sorry but I have never been taught anything else. What ways do you teach your horse when they have done something wrong?
bnayc is offline  
post #27 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 01:49 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,888
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val View Post
P.S. I haven't seen it in a single place I went to (even the places that have studs). I do see the need for it at times, but for very specific horses.
I actually do own a chain. I have a very high-strung gelding that absolutely and utterly went nuts if put in cross ties and *I* was not standing there. Had to be me, not my trainer, not anyone else, had to be ME and since his response to me leaving was to back up until he hit the ends of the cross ties and then start rearing, my trainer wanted to end that nonsense and make it darn clear that even if I left and the boogeyman is standing there, rearing in the cross ties would absolutely NOT be tolerated. She used the chain so if his feet started leaving the ground she could quickly yank him back down and make it darn clear that he was to keep 4 feet firmly on the ground. Serious safety issue and she wanted to end it fast. We left the chain on his halter for a while but never needed to use it after that so it's yet another dust collector hanging in the barn.

I've used a whip when leading my horse.... I didn't actually *whip* him with it though. He started invading my space, I tapped his shoulder with it so he moved back over where he belonged. He started to charge ahead of me, I tapped his chest so he once again moved back where he belonged. I've done the same thing with the knotted end of his lead rope, a reminder of "hey, this is MY space and you don't belong in it".

A horse charging a person though? Going to get whacked with whatever happens to be handy. Never laughed so hard as when my horse got beaned square in the butt with a cone. He literally stopped dead in his tracks "OMG, I can't believe you just did that, you hit ME with a cone! You really beaned my special lil butt with a CONE!". I saw my trainer whip off her jacket and become large, scary person with big, scary, flappy jacket when someone else's horse tried charging her and there were no throwable objects handy. Her goal was to hold her ground and drive the horse off to let it know SHE is in-charge, not them.
Delfina is offline  
post #28 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 04:39 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 296
• Horses: 0
I do think using a chain is appropriate for some horses....but should not be the automatic "goto" for every horse.

In regards to this incident - I have seen almost the identical thing with a very high-strung horse with terrible ground manners. Leading him back and forth from stall to pasture and back was always a PITA - he would pull, rear, kick, dance - UGH! I hated being around him!

But his owner would come out to the barn and work with him in almost the exact way that was described in the OP. She would take him from his stall and the second he even acted like he might get out of line she jerked him with the chain HARD several times, smacked him with a crop and turned him in a tight circle. And the horse would respond by walking properly for her...

So was that abuse? It didn't look like abuse to me....just an unruly horse being firmly corrected for acting up.

So I guess my question for the OP is: was the horse really "beaten" just as he was standing in the stall? Or has he been getting into some bad habits, and then when the owner tried to lead him from the stall, she was correcting bad behavior?

Yes - there may be a better way of training...

But was this really abuse?

Leasing a spoiled rotten trail horse...pretty - but a brat!
Daisy25 is offline  
post #29 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 263
• Horses: 3
Ok guys things seem to be getting worse with vini. Today I was saddling him up and when I went to put the bit in his mouth me bolted. He got out of the stall and it took me 45 minutes to
Catch him. He was running around wildly with the saddle still on him. I know I'm having a trainer out Friday but what should I have done? I had to hide in the barn with his grain in the stall to get him. Should I have punished him for this? I didn't use the chain today not even when I lunged him, and I didn't give him a good smack with anything. I have been thinking about what you all have said and I'm not sure if by the time I got hold of him of he even remembered what he did. What would have been the proper punishment, if any, for this?
GreenBackJack likes this.
bnayc is offline  
post #30 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 07:29 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Port Augusta, Down Under
Posts: 301
• Horses: 4
If I need to use any form of extra restraint I use an anti-rearing bit like they use on race horses and they are NOT harsh if you know how to use one:File:Anti rear bit.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I would rather one to a chain over the nose anyway I find if used harsh they can damage a horses nose
donovan is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEW Here and NEW to Horses. Need advice on Situation I have found myself in.. CatClick Horse Talk 15 11-01-2011 08:53 PM
Need Advice ASAP - Situation Getting Strange Quick simplysouthern Horse Talk 41 10-29-2011 08:50 PM
Advice on this situation hiwaythreetwenty Eventing 5 04-24-2011 10:01 AM
Yet another Mom situation. Advice welcome.... SorrelHorse Horse Talk 0 10-17-2010 01:48 AM
my situation sydney Horse Talk 4 12-03-2008 01:23 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome