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need advice for a bad situation

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    03-14-2012, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by bnayc    
I don't see how using a stick is humane at all!
Depends on how one use it. When my horse tries to invade my space aggressively I have no problem what so ever to smack her shoulder or butt or neck (whatever is within my reach) with the stick (or the lead rope) to remind her her place. In fact I find stick to be more humane than chain (and I agree with kevin, I only use rope halter or flat halter, never had a need for the chain).

I do understand you may do/use because of what the owner does/shown you. But I think may be it's time just deal with the horse yourself (especially if you don't like what the owner did). And trainer's help is always great!
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    03-14-2012, 01:32 PM
I have worked at several different barns and volunteer at a horse rescue and they all have used the chain over the nose. At first I didn't like it, but different people have told me that it is a way to keep horses from acting up. Also even at the rescue they have pulled the chain to teach a horse to stop what its doing. I'm not saying that I yanked it with all my might, but I did do a few firm tugs. I don't see why it is so bad. I see people all the time who have chains on their lunge lines and on their lead lines.
I feel it is easier on the horse than to whip them or hit them with other objects. My horse has always been trained this way, so that is the only reason I did it. I would never to that to my Arabian because he has never had it done. Please believe me that I am not trying to hurt my horse. I am trying to keep him from getting hurt by his other owner.
And in the situation where he was charging, I had to immediatly act to stop him, not just punish him. I don't hold any thing against him for it and I still love him to death. But he had to be stalled or else he would have crushed my goat and I. Even in the stall he was going nuts and trying to hard to get out. I got in with him and had him put his head down to get him to calm down. Not out of anger, but fear that he was going to hurt himself.
    03-14-2012, 01:35 PM
If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten.
waresbear likes this.
    03-14-2012, 01:35 PM
Bnayc, chain is a short cut to the correct training. Which is never a good thing. What if you don't have a chain around? What if you have to dismount on trail ride and lead the horse? I'm VERY surprised that all barns and rescues use it. That means one thing: they don't take the time to teach the horse the simplest basic thing - how to lead.

P.S. I haven't seen it in a single place I went to (even the places that have studs). I do see the need for it at times, but for very specific horses.
    03-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Green Broke
You are doing what the owner herself showed you to do (other than beating him). If her beating him is wrong, that calls into question that her whole approach to working with horses is not a correct method. Please listen to what the others have said. Just because putting the horse in a stall and forcing his head down for five minutes seems to "work", does not mean that it is the right way to handle the situation. Find a good trainer (trainers come in bad and good varieties just like owners) and learn proper training methods. We are here to learn, we make mistakes to learn from, and we are always learning new things all the time if we are open minded.
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    03-14-2012, 01:51 PM
I normally don't even use my lead with a chain, vini is normally very well behaved horse. He has good ground manners and leads just fine without it. I am having a trainer come out on Friday, but what are some things that you use besides a chain? I'm sorry but I have never been taught anything else. What ways do you teach your horse when they have done something wrong?
    03-14-2012, 02:49 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
P.S. I haven't seen it in a single place I went to (even the places that have studs). I do see the need for it at times, but for very specific horses.
I actually do own a chain. I have a very high-strung gelding that absolutely and utterly went nuts if put in cross ties and *I* was not standing there. Had to be me, not my trainer, not anyone else, had to be ME and since his response to me leaving was to back up until he hit the ends of the cross ties and then start rearing, my trainer wanted to end that nonsense and make it darn clear that even if I left and the boogeyman is standing there, rearing in the cross ties would absolutely NOT be tolerated. She used the chain so if his feet started leaving the ground she could quickly yank him back down and make it darn clear that he was to keep 4 feet firmly on the ground. Serious safety issue and she wanted to end it fast. We left the chain on his halter for a while but never needed to use it after that so it's yet another dust collector hanging in the barn.

I've used a whip when leading my horse.... I didn't actually *whip* him with it though. He started invading my space, I tapped his shoulder with it so he moved back over where he belonged. He started to charge ahead of me, I tapped his chest so he once again moved back where he belonged. I've done the same thing with the knotted end of his lead rope, a reminder of "hey, this is MY space and you don't belong in it".

A horse charging a person though? Going to get whacked with whatever happens to be handy. Never laughed so hard as when my horse got beaned square in the butt with a cone. He literally stopped dead in his tracks "OMG, I can't believe you just did that, you hit ME with a cone! You really beaned my special lil butt with a CONE!". I saw my trainer whip off her jacket and become large, scary person with big, scary, flappy jacket when someone else's horse tried charging her and there were no throwable objects handy. Her goal was to hold her ground and drive the horse off to let it know SHE is in-charge, not them.
    03-14-2012, 05:39 PM
I do think using a chain is appropriate for some horses....but should not be the automatic "goto" for every horse.

In regards to this incident - I have seen almost the identical thing with a very high-strung horse with terrible ground manners. Leading him back and forth from stall to pasture and back was always a PITA - he would pull, rear, kick, dance - UGH! I hated being around him!

But his owner would come out to the barn and work with him in almost the exact way that was described in the OP. She would take him from his stall and the second he even acted like he might get out of line she jerked him with the chain HARD several times, smacked him with a crop and turned him in a tight circle. And the horse would respond by walking properly for her...

So was that abuse? It didn't look like abuse to me....just an unruly horse being firmly corrected for acting up.

So I guess my question for the OP is: was the horse really "beaten" just as he was standing in the stall? Or has he been getting into some bad habits, and then when the owner tried to lead him from the stall, she was correcting bad behavior?

Yes - there may be a better way of training...

But was this really abuse?
    03-14-2012, 08:22 PM
Ok guys things seem to be getting worse with vini. Today I was saddling him up and when I went to put the bit in his mouth me bolted. He got out of the stall and it took me 45 minutes to
Catch him. He was running around wildly with the saddle still on him. I know I'm having a trainer out Friday but what should I have done? I had to hide in the barn with his grain in the stall to get him. Should I have punished him for this? I didn't use the chain today not even when I lunged him, and I didn't give him a good smack with anything. I have been thinking about what you all have said and I'm not sure if by the time I got hold of him of he even remembered what he did. What would have been the proper punishment, if any, for this?
GreenBackJack likes this.
    03-14-2012, 08:29 PM
If I need to use any form of extra restraint I use an anti-rearing bit like they use on race horses and they are NOT harsh if you know how to use one:File:Anti rear bit.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I would rather one to a chain over the nose anyway I find if used harsh they can damage a horses nose

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