Nico **rant** - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Nico **rant**

So I have posted multiple threads on my boy and have gotten great advice. Right now, I am at home stressed to the max over a *lack* of bloodwork.

10 days ago, we had his blood pulled to do a simple testosterone test. We are trying to determine whether he has enough testosterone to actually breed. He has mounted every mare at our farm and was twice seen ejaculating. We know that he was a late geld at 4 years old. We do not know if he was ever bred before he was gelded. (any AQHA members know if there is a way to find out if he has any foals out there? Nocona Lee Callender Foaled April 27 2000)

When I contacted his breeder about his behavior and general questions I got this response "He was the second best horse Ive ever owned". Great. That answers everything! Ive since tried to contact his breeder again about his gelding. Two weeks later and I still have no response.

In the meantime, two of the mares that he 'bred' have left the farm. One of the owners of one of the mares is threatening to sue if her mare is bred. The other owner would be ecstatic and would welcome a foal. My barn owner is really putting the pressure on me to find out the results. Problem is, I cant get the vet to call me back.

My barn owner and fellow boarders are more worried than ever. They have my poor boy on lock-down by himself. The longer we wait to hear back, the more they are convinced that he is able to breed. So after waiting 10 days to get the blood work back and still not hearing from the vet (i think i may have annoyed them today by calling for the 3rd day in a row) I decided to do a bit of research. Bad Idea. The man I bought Nico from (not his breeder) sent him with all of his paperwork. One was an expired coggins test taken when he was still with his breeder. I called them to see if they could give me any information about his gelding. They checked the records and he was not gelded by them. Ive tried 3 other vets in that area and all of them have heard of this breeder but none of them have any direct knowledge of Nico or his gelding.

As my mind starts racing, I get a phone call from a friend who works for another vet. Her question is, what if he is a DOUBLE chryptorchid? I am such a mess and am barely putting thoughts together. I know the chances are slim but my-oh-my what have I gotten myself into.

It doesn't help that our vet (not one I like mind you) told the barn owner that she wouldnt be suprised to find out that he is infact retaining one or both testicles. I was unable to be at the barn when the blood was drawn but the BO said when she took the vet down to Nicos stall to show her which horse to stick, she said 'he ISNT? a stud? I thought for sure he was...he sure LOOKS like one' So thats another question for ya...I have pictures of Nico all over this forum and so here is another. He doesn't have an visible testicles but at first look, would you assume my boy to be a stallion? He has a few behaviors that point to stud but isn't unmanagable. He loves the ladies, hates the boys and has a big neck. In my vets book, i guess that makes him a stud.

If anyone has any experience with this situation, please let me know. Im stressed out and ready to walk away. Nico is a good boy with a good heart and if he has to have surgery, ill probably have to sell a kidney to get it done.
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post #2 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 12:15 PM
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If he is a double crypt he certainly is not fertile so no worries that he impregnated anyone.

I can understand being upset being a mare owner. I too would be upset. But this one makes no sense to me. If the mare is pregnant it can be stopped easily at this point. No reason to sue. Yes, you would have to pay for the vet visit and the shot but....

One of the owners of one of the mares is threatening to sue if her mare is bred.

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post #3 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Oh im not mad about her threatening to sue. I probably would have done the same. Im just getting frustrated because we cannot get any answers from anyone. It doesn't help that a few miles down the road they have 3 foals on the ground and 2 more on the way from a 'gelding'. Just what I needed, more fuel to the fire!
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post #4 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 12:45 PM
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I have no idea what to tell you about the stud VS gelding thing. Crazy. =\

BUT, they do have a service called STG [stallion-to-gelding] support. At least I think that's what it's called. My friend did it for her stud when she needed him gelded, and it only cost her like $30. Seriously. Her situation may have been a little different financially, but it's worth a shot of looking them up if it comes to a gelding.

And if he's registered, you can try going to and see if anyone has posted he has babies. I'm also pretty sure you can contact the AQHA and see if they can help you out. I had to call the APHA for help on some paperwork once, and they were pretty nice about it. Also, worth a shot. =]

Best of luck, I hope he's sterile and/or gelded, and I'm praying your **** vet gets back to you. =]

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post #5 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 12:57 PM
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What excuse does the vet give for not having an answer yet?

Could the Barn Owner call and ask the vet what is going on?
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post #6 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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We have all called. You dont actually get to speak to the vet, just her office workers. They said (dripping in attitude) She will get back to you when she has time...she *IS* a very busy woman. After I get this bloodwork back she is about to become one horse less busy. She was supposed to call me by 4pm yesterday. When she didn't call, I called them at 6 from work. They said she got called out on an emergency and would get back to me tomorrow (today). When I called at noon, I got the attitude. I know its not much money to them but between lab fees and farm call, its costing me $80 to have one simple test run. I was kinda hoping for better service.
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post #7 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 01:17 PM
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Does he have an obvious testicle? If no - he is very very unlikely to be able to settle anything.

As far as the blood test - did the vet give him an injection prior to the test? (cut and paste from The Horse)

Hormone Analysis--Hormone analysis is particularly useful as a first indicator of cryptorchidism in an apparent gelding. Plasma concentrations of testosterone and oestrone sulphate, both of which are produced by the testes, are normally higher in cryptorchids than geldings, especially in animals under three years of age. A simple blood test can therefore be used. In animals older than three years, testing for plasma testosterone is less accurate. A more accurate diagnosis can be obtained by assessing the animal's response to hCG (human chorionic gonadotropin), which has LH (luteinizing hormone)-like activity and thus drives any testicular tissue to produce testosterone. Even the limited amount of testicular tissue present in the cryptorchid will react to hCG by producing testosterone. Blood samples are taken immediately before and several hours after treatment. An increase in testosterone in response to hCG is indicative of a retained testis.
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post #8 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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I wasn't there for the actual blood draw but I don't think that she injected anything prior to drawing his blood. I have heard of HCG injection tests but I think she was trying to get a generalized reading of how high his testosterone is.
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post #9 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 01:46 PM
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I had to have blue tested for cryptorchid. He was breaking down stall doors to mount mares. I think he was around 5 at the time, it turns out he HAD been bred before he was gelded and it took a while to get it out of his system. He no longer behaves that way but it seems like it took over a year to come back to reality with him. He was already gelded when I bought him. I can't remember how long it took to get the results on the test but I rememember it took a really long time. I'm going to see if I can pull proginy for your horse.

"Be a best friend, tell the truth, and overuse I love you
Go to work, do your best, don't outsmart your common sense
Never let your prayin knees get lazy
And love like crazy"
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post #10 of 39 Old 06-22-2010, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you! You all have helped me calm down a bit. I dont know that he was bred but I do know that he was gelded at 4. Or was supposed to be gelded at 4. Im just a huge worry-wart on this stuff. I really wasn't too worried about it until someone mentioned double crypto...and after more research (dang internet!) ive found out that doubles account for 1/3 of ALL cryptos. Yikes.
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