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PPE on a foal?

5K views 16 replies 11 participants last post by  Tigo 
#1 ·
Hi all!

I'm in the process of purchasing a weanling colt and am looking for some PPE advice. A bit about the little (huge) guy: He's an oldenburg colt, coming 6 months old and is more the size of a yearling than a weanling (he's big. Like, really big). He's going to be my next dressage partner, hopefully at the FEI levels when my current FEI horse retires from competition.

I know that a PPE on a foal isn't as extensive as a riding age horse but I am curious as to if others would do a PPE on a foal. What would you include? I know you can't do flexions and x-rays are often inconclusive in what they show since so much changes as they grow.

This colt is showing small splints on his front legs which if he was a grown horse I would have no concern about. Would you be concerned about splints on a weanling? He is very slightly toed out at this stage of his growth so I wonder if his size combined with that is maybe the cause? Owner already has x-rays on those that I can show to my vet - the owner doesn't seem at all concerned about them.

So I guess I'm looking for advice as to what I should be looking at for a PPE. My coach suggests hock x-rays, we'll use the front X-rays that the owner has, blood work to look for nutritional imbalances (I read that that can be a cause of splints in babies, as well as many other issues), and a general health exam (heart, lungs, eyes).

Am I going overboard or does that seem reasonable? Most of this is for my own peace of mind - out of 5 horses I have had to give two away due to chronic issues and my main performance horse has had a never ending saga of issues (also a really, really big horse). I'll be honest, we never did PPE on any of those horses. I really just want to avoid issues that I can catch off the bat.

Anyways, that is my novel. Kudos to those that read it. I really appreciate any advice you guys may have! Thanks :)
 
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#2 ·
I don't see why not - while it's not going to show everything because he is still growing, an experienced vet can probably point out things you may have to watch out for as he grows, or any conformation flaws that may cause problems down the road.

Other than that, all you will be able to tell at this stage of the game is going to be his overall health and the possibility of being a prospect for what you want to do with him. Honestly a weanling sounds a little TOO early in the game to be able to get a good handle on his future suitability, especially if you are sinking a lot of money into his purchase.

From what I know of selecting purpose-built horses (driving horses) I know many people who don't choose their prospects until they are at least yearlings.
 
#3 ·
I would get a PPE. I've never gotten x-rays on a weanling before but have had them checked for overall soundness, heart, eyes, teeth (bite), etc. Plus, with a colt, they will check that he is descended so that gelding (should you choose to) would not be an issue later. The first horse I ever bought myself (at age 18) was a colt and I didn't have a PPE done. Turns out he had an undescended testicle and a hernia. Had to go in for surgery in order to be gelded. Lesson learned! I would always get one done now, even with young horses.
 
#5 ·
Unless I know the breeder extremely well I always recommend x rays of all legs and joints, a general wellness exam, a thourough eye exam and a gene panel copy (if available).

I use these to check for issues that could come up or even to have on file for when they get older. Most of the time it's easier to buy a yearling and get what you pay for.
 
#6 ·
Thanks very much for the input everyone! I'll be doing the vet check, I think it's money well spent. I'll be making a list for the vet. You guys have brought up some things that slipped my mind which will be good to check.

OCD is my major concern for a horse of his size. I'm honestly worried about how quickly he's growing and how large he's going to be. I'll be talking with the vet about the chances of OCD developing even if there aren't any signs at this stage.

I'll agree that buying a yearling gives you a much better idea of what you're getting. Babies are a gamble. My last one didn't turn out at all as we thought she would. Ended up having to sell her for peanuts at 9 years old. So believe me when I say I'm hesitant to buy a foal again! The wiser choice would be to save for another year and put it into a yearling. There's just something about this colt though that is really drawing me to him.

We'll see how the vet check goes. I've been in touch with the vet and I'm waiting to hear when they'll be back in the area of the stable.

Thanks again for your input so far guys!! Much appreciated :)
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#8 ·
Well, just thought I would pop in with a little update! Vet check was today. We did X-rays and the X-rays that the owner had were transferred to my vet. Nothing was found on them - vet said he was pleasantly surprised because of baby's size. So joints are not of much concern at this point in his life.

However, there had to be something that came up! The vet found a mid-high grade heart murmur. Now, I asked him directly if this is something that should cause me to not buy this foal. He replied that it is not. He said that the foal may well grow out of it, or not. He suggested getting an echo done to look into the issue further. I am absolutely in love with this foal, so I am willing to put the money in to delve into the issue a bit further.

I feel like logically with this knowledge I should run....who in their right mind would willingly buy a foal with a heart condition? However, I found the lack of concern from the vet rather interesting. I guess until we know the type of murmur there isn't much he can speculate about. I'll be making a few calls to a few vets to see who will let me pick their brains about the issue.

Further thoughts? Am I entirely insane to even consider this foal at this point?
 
#11 ·
The vet clinic is one of the more major ones situated in the Edmonton area (I'm happy to discuss the name privately). I spoke with the PPE vet again and he said that an echo is really the best course of action and he would talk to her about coming in on consult.

My aunt is also a vet who built and owns one of the major Edmonton area equine hospitals. Though she doesn't deal with my horses (we try not to mix family and business), I did ask for her opinion. She said that a grade 4/6 on a horse of his age is significant and warrants an echo. Though she didn't say run, run far away, she was quick to point out that there are many other nice horses without heart murmurs who need love too. She also pointed out the cost of the procedure, which will cost me another number of hundreds of dollars which I did not budget for. I'm interested to see if the owner will foot the bill. I know I would want to know whats up with him, if he were mine. However, I guess there are people who would just want to wait for the buyer who won't vet check.

Oh the decisions.
 
#13 ·
She said that a grade 4/6 on a horse of his age is significant and warrants an echo. Though she didn't say run, run far away, she was quick to point out that there are many other nice horses without heart murmurs who need love too. She also pointed out the cost of the procedure, which will cost me another number of hundreds of dollars which I did not budget for.
While murmurs are not uncommon in adult horses.. a 4/6 is not a mild murmur. Having worked in a cardiology specialty practice (though of small animals), we hated seeing young animals come in for echos because it almost always meant some type of congenital defect.

Personally, I would run. An echo might be interesting from an academic standpoint.. but the type of athlete you want this foal to become is already above and beyond.. so why start out with a deficit? What is it about this particular foal that you don't feel you could find in another?
 
#15 ·
Random thought. IMHO you have some long term plans for your next horse. Is it a great idea to start off with a potential problem? What will 10 years work look like?

It is hard when you fall in love with them first. But you could find another oldenburg and fall in love again.
 
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#16 ·
In regards to covering the echo, it would be worth speaking to the owner.

When previously purchasing a horse that had some leg issues on the flexion test, the owner said she wouldn't foot any of the bad x-rays as she didn't feel it would effect the horse in the long run. I wanted a horse for dressage, this horse had a bone lump thing (they called it a bone nose as a literal translation). I ended up paying the 170€ for the two.

When I went to sell Dubai, I previously agreed with the buyer that (if the vet was an equine vet, not a run of the mill) I would pay for the PPE if it went bad; as a horse owner I would hate to sell a sick or injured animal to someone and would want to know what was wrong. PPE was fine, but one of the X-rays on his hind leg showed something. I paid her for the Xray of that leg and the PPE, she covered the three others. She had, at that point, said she was fine covering all but we had a verbal agreement and were both as upset as each other at the finding.
 
#17 ·
Thank you all for your thoughts. Now that my emotions have subsided and I've received input from so many people, you are all correct. I think if I were looking for a horse to play around with and ride casually, perhaps this might not be something I would shy so strongly from. As we've said though, the work I plan to do with him will not be easy and I'm going to need a top level athlete - not one that comes with a heart problem.

ShirtHotTeez is entirely correct...I fell in love with him before I got all the facts. As this is the first time I've set out to buy a young prospect and I think I just got so excited that I was finally going to have THE one. THE one I picked out on my own, that I fell in love with. This is the first one I've viewed that I've taken to vet check which was so exciting and I got to making all these plans for him before I had the whole picture. Lesson learned: keep emotions in check until after the vetting!!!

I wish I had spoken with the owner about covering the vetting or a portion of it should it come back there is something wrong. That is very generous of you Duffy to have offered that. Sadly, I'm now out hundreds of dollars and have nothing to show for it but at least I know and didn't find out after purchase!!

There will be other foals just as nice, or nicer, without a physical issue. This same breeder has a number of other foals on the way next year, so maybe I'll take a look at those. Or keep saving money and buy something where I can get a better look at what I'm really buying (a yearling-2 year old, perhaps!). The world will never stop having beautiful, healthy foals.

Thank you again everyone for your advice!
 
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