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Question for ANYONE LIVING IN TUCSON/Southern AZ!!

This is a discussion on Question for ANYONE LIVING IN TUCSON/Southern AZ!! within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Horses for sale in tucson
  • Boarding horses tucson prices costs

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    07-18-2012, 05:18 PM
  #11
Yearling
CaCowgirl,

Awww, I TOO wish I lived closer! That seems to be the problem a lot these days!

The second woman who responded to my Craigslist ad was so kind and we got along great..she had a perfect mare for me/my needs with some added bonuses (her mare was a jumper and h/j was my "area" all of my childhood..thus, if I decided to go that direction, she would have been great!

She also wanted NO MONEY...Just someone to love on/ride her mare so she would not feel guilty not riding her often...(she worked full-time and had a newborn son) & we were the same size so tack was a fit, EVERYTHING...BUT...I WOULD NEVER be able to commute a minimum of 2h/day, work 45h MIN/week (more like 60!) & ever see my son and husband (plus volunteering has become important to me, so would hate to give that up....alas, such is Murphy & his darned law! :0)

Thanks so much for the response...anyone else with ideas, please chime in!!
Much thanks...B2H :0)
     
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    07-19-2012, 12:14 AM
  #12
Weanling
There's a couple things you need to realize about leasing a horse out west, especially in AZ.
First, most folks own their horses. That's for both care reasons and liability reasons.
Yes, there is a law on the books that states specifically that the owner can't be sued for equine accidents, but the fear is there.
The underlying thing you're up against is the prevalence of the California mindset.
Many Californians have migrated here, and while there are some wonderful folks that have vine, there's far more chowder heads than good folk that crossed the border.
That mentality is the screw everyone, what's in it for me thinking process.
The example is, you lease a horse, care for it well, but it gets sick and dies.
The owner comes back and sues you for negligence, and then you're screwed.
Or, the flip side, I lease my horse to you, you queer it by being a crappy rider, or lame her up, then ditch the lease, now i'm screwed, and i'm having to come after you to fix what you broke.
Most purge to avoid the drama and hassles of being a horse landlord.
The liabilities are to high.
Just a thought.
     
    07-19-2012, 12:44 AM
  #13
Trained
I think leasing is becoming a thing of the past for all the reasons Azwantapaint mentions. So, to cover myself, my horse and my perceived liability, if I lease you a horse, here's how it would have to go:

1. Horse would be kept in full training with an experienced trainer in facilities I approved.
2. You would insure my horse for mortality, major medical, surgery and loss of use, with me a loss payee.
3. You would pay all expenses of the horse, training, farrier, vet, etc. during the time of the lease.
4. I would retain the right to drop in and check out the horse without notice.
5. Some lessors also charge a lease fee for not being able to use their horse, $1K to 5K/year for a really topnotch horse.

So! The training/board would cost you around $1K/month, farrier $200 every other month, allow $1000 for vet emergencies (that's where the major medical & surgical policy comes in, you only pay deductible and a little bit) but costs around $1000/year and then let's pick a lease fee in the middle, $2500/year.

That's
12K/year training,
1200/year farrier approx
500/year routine vet (Coggins, health, vaccines)
1000/year insurance
2500/year lease
__________________
$17,200

And you haven't even gone to a show yet and I didn't throw in the $1000 deductible for an injury or colic.

Then, if we go out to your trainer's facility and I watch her train horses and humans and inspect her facility, if I don't like it, I don't approve it and you have to move or find another horse.

Very few people are willing to spend that kind of money and then after a year or 2, give the horse back to the owner. There's really no downside to the owner, other than I can't ride my own horse, but I wouldn't lease my very favorite horse out anyhow, right?

Even if you're agreeable to all that, then I'm going to make you and your trainer sign a release of liability and I'm going to carry an umbrella policy that I don't tell you about, just in case you turn out to be a nutcase and try to sue me for something.

And, experience being the very best teacher of all, I've learned from others mistakes on breed leasing mares, and I no longer would do an off site lease, regardless of who your trainer was or who you are or how nice the facilities. I've seen too many crazy things happen and just won't do any of that, period. I think that's probably what you're running into, unfortunately.
     
    07-19-2012, 06:04 AM
  #14
Yearling
AZ & Dreamcatcher;

Yes, sadly, there is no longer trust between people...In my position, its tough. We read constantly (& complain constantly, for excellent reasons!) right here on HF about folks who buy a horse yet aren't prepared for the realities, either time wise or financially. Then you take someone such as myself...I can afford to purchase a horse. I can (currently, with my life just at it's present status quo) "afford" the time said horse would require, riding, grooming, loving on him/her five mornings per week, with my husband available and willing to ride/groom/love the sixth day, so I could do whatever else life requires and horse would have day seven off, at a facility with full-feed/muck/turnout on day seven and we would not travel out to the barn that day...

But...I have yet to secure ten grand for vet only...the $$ I'd need to have before taking on the responsibly for a life...I put just as much thought into adopting our dog eight years ago. I was terrified...I feel when one CHOOSES to be responsible, one must remain so, regardless of what changes may come. I'm not implying horses cannot be sold and new horses purchased, but the sale should not, IMO, be a FINANCIAL "have to", rather, perhaps, an, "I'm a more advanced rider now and this horse would better serve a beginner who would love and appreciate his/her no-challenge-way-of-going", while perhaps I'd be better served by a horse with some additional "challenge" built in...

Anyhow, back to my original point...I'm a reliable, conscientious, intelligent, consistent, responsible, hard working and committed person...WITH THE TWENTY SOME PERSONAL REFERENCES TO PROVE IT! But despite this, it seems I could be, were I a less patient individual, pushed into buying a horse before I am financially as prepared as I feel I should be, because otherwise I am stuck riding only one time per week...don't misunderstand!

That weekly lesson is wonderful, and I do volunteer and love that time as well. But if I want more, and having gone with nothing for "me" and everything for husband/son for the past ten years, until I thank G-d, rediscovered my horse passion, it is tough to know I now must wait two more years possibly, to get to my ten k mark with the market/economy such as it is, to get to ride as often as I'd like because others have grown weary of trust!

Kinda a crap deal if you ask me, though I certainly get that life isn't supposed to be easy! :0)

My trainer has promised me that the moment a horse its available for lease of those she owns, it will go to me. She's met my husband many times, interestingly, one of my employees, and has obviously seen my "way" every week now for two and a half months, with both her and her horses. She knows I'm trustworthy...
Interestingly also, despite the quality of the two horses she does make available to her students for lease, she also only charges $200/month per horse for each of these two horses...she covers all additional stated expenses above and has iron-clad contracts, horses remain at her facility, and leasees ride under her watchful eye. She gives one lesson per month as part of the $200/month lease fee, allowing her to ensure further that all is REMAINING good and positive between each horse and her and lessees.

She does all of this because she is able to financially and according to her, because she is very good at reading people. She claims that in ten years of leasing she has not been burned. I don't know what makes her different, except that she is very cautious when getting to know someone. By the time she does know them, there is no question in her mind that she is doing right or wrong. If it could be wrong, it doesn't happen.

Perhaps people have become too busy, too greedy, too SOMETHING, and thus they have made poor/too quick/too desperate choices with their horses and have been burned. Too bad, really, because as I see it, there would be few safer, more conscientious lessee's than myself. If I have a question, I get an answer before I act. I do not risk my loved ones and would never risk another's loved one/their well-being (horse)...My career as an RN is built on that premise, as are my interpersonal relationships...

I am content to wait until either one of Holly's lease horses come available, until my horse vet fund reaches $10,000.00 & I can buy, or until some trusting, amazing person finds me and wants to make me a part of their horse's life! As I see it, I really do not have any other choice! :0)

Thanks again guys! :0)
     
    07-19-2012, 11:16 AM
  #15
Yearling
If you want more, why don't you increase the frequency of your lessons?
Speed Racer likes this.
     
    07-19-2012, 11:44 AM
  #16
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolio    
If you want more, why don't you increase the frequency of your lessons?
Because my lessons as a returning intermediate rider and not an advanced rider obtaining "daily coaching" are for building/learning, and with no practice time to build upon each foundational block, it is essentially wasted time for my instructot with no mental/physical integration time for myself...
     
    07-19-2012, 11:52 AM
  #17
Trained
There is health insurance available for horses, altho I don't know the details.
"However much the premiums might be, they're still much cheaper than buying a new horse or paying for major surgery. "A lot of people think insurance is more expensive than it really is," says Andy Beauchamp of Equine Insurance Specialists in Muncie, Indiana. "If you purchase the minimum mortality coverage, which costs $150, along with major medical insurance for $150, you're paying only $25 per month ? Less than a dollar a day."
Options in Basic Equine Insurance

My two larger horses probably have a fair market value in the Tucson area of around $800-1200. Cut that in half if I want to be picky about who buys them. Compared to the price of keeping them at a stable, that is darn near free. In Dec 2010 I sold a purebred Arabian mare with a sweet personality (I wanted to keep her and sell a different horse) for $600. If your trainer lets folks know you will take care of a horse, you can get a good tempered horse in Tucson for peanuts. Or free, if the horse is only 13 hands...

The advantage to owning is that you really DO get to influence the horse. Over time, the horse learns YOUR expectations, and you have to work thru the issues the horse has - and at the $1000 price range, they ALL have some issues. But learning to deal with that is a big part of learning horses. Balance is easier to learn than how to get into the horse's mind.
     
    07-19-2012, 12:19 PM
  #18
Weanling
I've been trying to lease my perfectly good horse out for months... Nada. :/
Back2Horseback likes this.
     
    07-19-2012, 12:35 PM
  #19
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back2Horseback    
AZ & Dreamcatcher;

But...I have yet to secure ten grand for vet only...

Interestingly also, despite the quality of the two horses she does make available to her students for lease, she also only charges $200/month per horse for each of these two horses...she covers all additional stated expenses above and has iron-clad contracts, horses remain at her facility, and leasees ride under her watchful eye. She gives one lesson per month as part of the $200/month lease fee, allowing her to ensure further that all is REMAINING good and positive between each horse and her and lessees.

Perhaps people have become too busy, too greedy, too SOMETHING, and thus they have made poor/too quick/too desperate choices with their horses and have been burned. Too bad, really, because as I see it, there would be few safer, more conscientious lessee's than myself. If I have a question, I get an answer before I act. I do not risk my loved ones and would never risk another's loved one/their well-being (horse)...My career as an RN is built on that premise, as are my interpersonal relationships...


Thanks again guys! :0)
Here's what I'm getting about your trainer:

She's doing an ON SITE lease because she keeps the horse at the facility, gives one lesson per month in her lease fee and is absorbing all the cost of the horse. That's a very sweet lease deal for you and one I'd wait for.

If you leasded a horse from me, you'd have to bring the horse from OK to Tucson, where I used to live BTW, and board it at your trainer's facility. That's a VERY off site lease for me, and one I wouldn't even consider because I could not check on the well being of my horse. If I leased out a horse, you'd be getting one of my more valuable horses and the insurance would be more than mortality & major medical because I need to get the value of the horse back if something happens and it's put down. That's around a $20K horse with a winning show record or I wouldn't lease it out.

Your trainer knows the people she's leasing to, the rest of us don't know you from Adam. And trust? Yeah, not so much, I've already had to go rescue 2 I sold a few years ago, THIS year. Not going to go there on a lease.

To have a $10K vet nest egg is nice but not necessary, carry the insurance and all you need is the deductible and depending on the coverage you buy, maybe 25%. And if you buy mortality, then you get a check for the value of the horse if it's put down.

So, no, I'm not greedy, actually when I did do leases they were always under what others would have charged, but I will no longer do that. My horses are worth what they are worth because I put time, effort, training and lots of $$$$ into them. Not going to lose all that for a lease, it's not worth the potential loss and exposure to me.
     
    07-19-2012, 04:17 PM
  #20
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojanCowgirl    
I've been trying to lease my perfectly good horse out for months... Nada. :/
Now that I've posted this, I get a response and someone is coming to look at her on Monday. I just jinxed my bad luck! LOL
Back2Horseback likes this.
     

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