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Rant warning! Years do not equate experience/horsemanship

5K views 52 replies 25 participants last post by  george the mule 
#1 ·
Before I rant, let me say that I am not a know-it-all. I spend a good amount of my time learning different methods and new things because the one thing I know is I don't know it all!
I also want to say that I respect my elders, and all people for that matter, and I also respect the experience and guidance of all horse people, young or old.

Now...

Years do NOT equate good, applicable experience.
Years do NOT equate good horsemanship.
And years do NOT give you the license to ignore the different needs of each individual animal or ignore the fact that there are a billion right, good, and correct ways to take care of a horse around the world and across climates and disciplines!


Man am I tired of horse people know-it-alls. In fact, I've begun to think that the mark of a bad horseman/woman is one who thinks they know everything they need to, and that everyone should do it their way!
The amazing thing about horses is that you are never done learning. You are never done growing. Anyone who ignores or denies this is ignorant!

People really abuse the '___years of experience with horses' phrase. If you've been riding every week on a pay by the hour tourist nose-to-tail trail horse for three years with no other experience, that does not qualify you to take out a real riding horse and go trotting and galloping about!
If you've got however many years around horses, but then are not willing to accept that maybe you've been doing something wrong, or maybe your way doesn't work for that horse, you lack the fundamentals of good horsemanship!
And if you really dare to use your years of experience to justify the way you take care of an animal, in this case being that your way compromises the health and safety of that animal, then you should not have or care for that animal!

This was sparked by a conversation I had today, where the person boasted riding since young and years of experience with horses, and then turned around and said the reason why they don't clean their horse's stall is because the horse has a health problem and needs soft ground to stand on. This is with free, soft fill dirt available on property that can be taken and put in the horse's stall.
(ETA: I was polite. I did not rant or lose my temper. I only mentioned anything about it because the stall had been let go for a week and a half. I very politely mentioned the fill dirt I put in my own horses' stalls.)

Your experience, education, etc. does not justify bad animal husbandry, bad management, abusive training methods, or unwillingness to cater to the needs of the individual animal.

Rant over.

I feel better now :pinkunicorn:
 
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#4 ·
100% agree with this. I'm only eighteen and get thrown around and put under by older horsemen/women. I've spent hours researching and applying techniques, hours working with and watching horses interact. I put much MUCH hard work into learning many techniques and ways to deal with a problem. I hear a lot of older horse people talk about old wives tales or myths, and how to correct them as well, and firmly believe that is the way. If you don't do it their way, it's the WRONG way.

I try to stay humble and open minded, and try to stay away from the majority of horse people around here. I soak up what I can from the good ones, and disregard the bad.
 
#5 ·
You're not the only one. There are many out there who go through that, myself included.

Since hitting my twenties, I've encountered less of this. It's also because I distanced myself from such people.
However I think a good bit of it is because I carry myself with much more authority than I did when I was younger. I'm not sure if its something they read in my face, as I thought that I stay pleasant/passive in voice and expression, yet most often any unwelcome advice or such things are followed by 'but everybody does things differently', whereas it used to be 'this is the only right way'.

The people that really get me are the ones who try to get free ride time, work-to-ride lease, or something like that based on what their parents did. (ex. 'My daddy broke in a lot of colts, I didn't really do it as much, but he did, so I'm super experienced'... someone literally said to me when I said I was looking for an experienced confident rider.)
 
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#6 ·
Well, take comfort in the words of some really good horsemen, one who make learning about hroses a life time journey
I think this came from Craig johnson;s site, but could be wrong.
Two old cowboys were riding along, when one said tot eh other one, 'I;m amassed as to how much I learned about horses, after the time I knew it all"
True horsemen know knowledge comes from experience and past judgement, with alot of that judgement being bad judgement.Tthe difference being, the 'enlightened older horse person has made more both wrong and right judgement then that younger horseman even had the time to try
 
#11 ·
i feel you! it seams SOO MUCH WORST IN ARIZONA! idk why! i mean i had to "tattle" on a boarder because they kept telling my fiance and i when to do and saying "oh dont by coppertox its the same as formaldehyde! just by formaldehyde its cheaper!" umm what? yeah my fiance has managed to keep his childhood horse alive for 26 years and odie alive for his entire 10 years of life. and my arab has survived 6 years with me so i think we are ok. i know someone who has had horses longer than i have been alive. if i fallowed her advice of stall rest when my mare had a locking stifle i would have had to pay a vet to fix it instead of hand walking. i dont pretend to be the most experienced horsewoman but PLEASE dont tell me i should do x when what i have been doing is working just fine. i listened to a person on the forum and got our 32 year old on a ration balancer and off red cell. within 2 weeks the old horse looked like CRAP! i hung on to giving him the balancer for almost 2 months and the horse has dropped all the muscle he put on and looks like a bony old nag. he has now been on red cell for 3 weeks and he is looking ALOT better.
 
#12 ·
One of the many problems with that attitude is that novice riders get so browbeaten with "You must listen to experienced people, you know nothing" that we start disregarding our own common sense. I know I fell for that.

My favourite: "You must learn how to ride all types of horses" after complaining of bucking and rearing horses I kept getting at various riding schools. Actually, no! As a 40something novice I DO NOT need to know how to retrain rank horses. I have zero plans of being a horse trainer. I bought myself a well trained horse and haven't been thrown off in a year. Prior to that I would get thrown off at least once a month and sometimes twice a lesson. I kept up with this drudgery for a long time, because I was "learning". I wasn't learning, I was scaring my self and damaging my body. If my horse turns rank, I will get a trainer. If it can't be fixed, I will sell/pts. I don't need to know how to fix them.

I know I will be flayed for this, so have at it, I'm ready :)
 
#17 ·
Bahaha... you and me both Horsef! It's different for the young 'uns who might end up with a career in horses, but I fully agree - I do not need know how to ride a rank horse! Which is why, when my mare turned out to be more spooky than I wanted, I hired a trainer to desensitize her.

The trainer who worked with my mare was just a kid - barely in her 20s! But she came highly recommended (moved here from Germany and is very experienced) so I thought I'd give her a shot. She worked wonders.

I respect those who have spent their lifetime with horses. I am always open to hearing their opinions. Doesn't mean I act on them. My daughter has been to more bad trainers than good ones so I've heard some doozies!

None of us will ever know it all (and I'm at the very bottom of that horse knowledge ladder).
 
#13 ·
it is quite simple, experience over time, learning along the way, tops no or little experience, and why careers, besides horses, are built around that fact.
Just putting in time, doing the same thing over and over again, 'because that is the way it was always done, is not experience, but simply putting in time, going nowhere, relying purely on tradition.
Reminds me of a story told, at one Horse Breeder's conference, I believe, just to get this point across.
A young bride searched and searched for these browned pans, with which her grandmother baked wonderful cake, without finding any
Finally she asked where her grandmother got those pans. |well, dear, 'came the answer, 'they browned over time and experience.
Bright minds question why something is done in a certain way, regardless of age, closed minds just accept 'that is the way it was always done', as good enough reason
Experience is useless, if you don't learn from it, but it is also a fact, that if you learn from experience, then more time doing so, is an importantt factor.
 
#14 ·
Man am I tired of horse people know-it-alls. In fact, I've begun to think that the mark of a bad horseman/woman is one who thinks they know everything they need to, and that everyone should do it their way!

The amazing thing about horses is that you are never done learning. You are never done growing. Anyone who ignores or denies this is ignorant!
And if you really dare to use your years of experience to justify the way you take care of an animal, in this case being that your way compromises the health and safety of that animal, then you should not have or care for that animal!
Good post! As an experienced horse person recently said on the forum, he has no dignity.
I am proud to say that I have studied and read about horses since I could read at all. I've studied each horse I've known to see what I can learn from them.
And I constantly make mistakes, and learn new things every day.

In the horse world you have to acknowledge that someone such as myself, nearing 40 and studying everything possible about feeding horses for years and years can make a feeding mistake and founder a horse. You have to acknowledge that a top rated farrier might be injuring horses with trimming mistakes. And your excellent vet might make a mistake and injure a horse. You have to realize you will scratch your head and be puzzled over and over by horses that don't match other horses you've known. You'll have to be willing to be over faced, beaten, and humbled time after time. And to be open to reversing strongly and dearly held beliefs you've had.

My philosophy is to find facts to back up my beliefs, but to ask and beg people to please show me where those beliefs are wrong. Please give me the facts that will change my mind, so I don't have to make mistakes that harm horses I work with and know. My philosophy is also to pass on what I've learned, to try to help other people not have to make the same mistakes I have.

As a doctor recently told me, "The patients don't read a book about their disease before having symptoms. They don't know how they're supposed to present to us." Our books say someone will have this kind of pain, and this symptom or that. But sometimes people don't follow the rules. It's the same with horses, they don't study how to respond to our training, or learn how to walk with an abscess so we can diagnose it easily. So we will have to keep making mistakes and learning from them.

Your acquaintance reminds me of someone who told me they left manure in the stalls to keep the horses warmer in the winter. !!!???
 
#15 ·
Your acquaintance reminds me of someone who told me they left manure in the stalls to keep the horses warmer in the winter. !!!???
Strangely enough, I've seen it done and it works. Make a layer of manure at the bottom, with clean bedding on top. The manure decomposes and releases heat in the process. And the way this guy did it, it didn't smell at all. Weird.
 
#18 ·
@Horsef @Acadianartist

Knowing your own limits is more honorable and respectable than climbing on a horse you aren't capable of handling through pride, ignorance, or stubbornness.

Last summer I was blessed to go riding with @gottatrot during a road trip. My mother was along, and even though it was offered to her to also ride, she declined because she did not feel she was up to it (many high-strung arabians on this ride). I thought that was very respectable of her, though I wished she could have come anyway.
 
#19 ·
Far as what actual true experienced hrose people recommend, and often seen on this forum, when advise is sought when a person is 'over horsed, is'to get a trainer'
So, to lump all experienced hrose people into a group of people who have just been around horses forever, is un fair, as it is to then take their advise as 'standard', esp the part of just getting on any horse, even if that rider does not feel confident doing so
Now, an experienced horse person will tell you that the more different horses you ride, the better rider you will become-also true, but along with that, comes increased risk, which is not the goal for everyone riding horses
There is a huge amateur market, supported by experienced hrose people (ie trainers) to either sell or train a horse for this person to enjoy, . It is en couraged, not discouraged, as that client has the money to pay for a well broke hrose, and can achieve, with that trainer's help, upper level success, but will never feel confident getting on a colt, like someone that had to train their own hroses.
That is fine, as there is a market and a place for both, and for everything in between Only that horse owner can decide where he feels comfortable being
Does not mean you don't get better, riding many horses,e sp green ones, but does not mean that has to be every horse owner's goal either
 
#20 ·
I have a friend who is like that. She has been around horses her whole life and since I am only 25 I obviously need her help. She does things differently than me and I tried to explain that to her but she just told me my poor horses where going to suffer because I am an idiot. I need to remember to tell them that they should be half dead out in their field without a winter blanket on! Lol

My grandparents where horse traders up until is was 12 and they where not the good kind. They would buy young, cheap, and never been worked with horses at auction. By the next auction they would lead, tie, and ride but they had major holes in there training. If they couldn't be ridden safely they would drug them for the auction and throw me up in the saddle to ride around on this "kid safe" horse. They would tell you anything you wanted to hear about how amazing the horse was, even if the horse was bat shot crazy!

By the time I bought Rowdy I realized that is not how you work with horses. I was a complete beginner and started all over with my learning. I love learning from people and am always open to new things or different ways of doing stuff. I refuse though to be talked down to like I am a child or an idiot. As soon as someone starts talking to me like that I pretty much just tune them out.
 
#22 ·
Personally, I just think there are better ways to keep a horse warm than deep bedding. I believe I read that deep bedding causes respiratory problems, but can't remember where.

I mean, there's blankets, free choice hay, keeping them in with other horses (they definitely keep each other warm!), etc.
 
#23 ·
I completely agree. I play this online horse game and the chatroom is basically governed by these two women (they are mods), one is probably 30ish and the other upper 40s. And do they rule it. They literally belitted me so many times and wouldn't value my advice. One would have a problem or something and I'd give a suggestion to which they'd quickly shut down. I remember once we were talking about something and at this time, I had never gone to a show. According to them, my opinion could not be valued and I had no experience because I never showed. "I mean it helps?" One said. Um??? I've gone to two shows and still know just as much as I did before. :rofl: We're on better terms now but still....
 
#24 ·
I've never done deep bedding with a horse but I did every winter I kept goats, and still do with chickens. I've napped in deep bedded stalls waiting for laboring does to kid. No smell and very comfy. Although I admit goat berries are a bit different than horse muffins. But I can't think horses would be troubled any more than goats.
 
#25 ·
That type of deep bedding might possibly work in a very dry environment. Around here the straw would mold, and I assume this system would mean you can't get rid of the ammonia from the urine either, so it would make for an unhealthy respiratory environment. Probably not good for the hooves either.

As @horseluvr2524 said, why not just put a blanket on and feed more if it's that cold?
 
#26 · (Edited)
Deep Bedding in my experience if done correctly and with deep AND absorbent material doesn't have any smell other than the fresh smell of the new layer laid on top. The very bottom layer (your compost material) will lock in urine which prevents the release of ammonia. The microbes (including fungi) are kept trapped in the lower layers which should not be disturbed. This also keeps the top layers dry. I use it with the chickens and have used it with cows. We never removed the manure but we added a really thick layer of carbon material every few days. Never had smell issues, wet spots or respiratory problems until we added ducks to the mix. I have about decided they will have to be given their own area and mange them differently. Right now they are in with the chickens. Ex and I also had a composting company that kept ten acres of piles of dairy manure and mushroom straw going year round. Adding water (we used lagoon water - urine that it caught and channeled into ponds) and "fluffing" (we had a massive machine that looked like a sideways auger) were a must for the health of the pile. Same in a stall. The urine provides moisture and nitrogen and picking and fluffing top layers brings in air. I do know some that flip the wet spots and remove the "cake" but this isn't necessary. Every now and then the cows from the two closest dairies would end up on site and loved laying in the piles. I don't currently stall my horses but have worked for and boarded in barns that use this method from PA down to TX. When it was done correctly and with enough material even without picking poop there were never issues. Most horse people pick the poop on top; the little bit that gets mixed in isn't an issue as it gets covered. If using straw you want old, "broken" straw not fresh cut "shiny" straw as the older straw is more absorbent. Chopped straw works really well. Sawdust, shavings that are smaller and more absorbent and newer products like pellets work really well. Starting with a stall that is lower than the aisle or one that has taller walls is best as you need that extra depth for the deep bedding and room to build the bed. There was one owner that never picked the poop. Those horses had horrible thrush issues until some of us started taking the horses out and cleaning hooves twice a day. These were horses that spent most of the winter indoors. We also added extra bedding to their stalls to cover manure. Most of the owners I worked with or boarded with stripped stalls 3 times a year but there were a few that would strip once or twice. Some left the very bottom layer as a "starter" for the new bed, others stripped to the flooring material. Several strategies for stripping. If the stalls are big enough and have a removable wall then a bobcat or small front end loader is great to remove the majority with hand work for finishing. Hiring a bunch of teens or stripping a limited number a day if it is just you and hopefully another to help works too. You have to have a well ventilated barn and I find running fans while cleaning helps as there is a release of ammonia when you break the bed up. Adding something like PDZ when you add new bedding or when initially bedding can help. The one barn that I really hated to work in had cement floors and didn't bed with anything but new straw. Urine would leak out from the base and the barn was not well ventilated plus they would shut that barn up tight at night. Awful for the workers, even worse for the horses. I am also not particularly fond of mats in these situations but they can work if you take the time to remove them as well when you strip, clean and sanitize. You should also allow to dry before putting them back in. It is hard on the mats and they break down quicker, I find, using this method. ETA The environments/climates varied widely from dry to humid. Ventilation was always the most impotent factor even in the coldest environments. While having good ventilation meant circulating air was cool/cold the stalls were comfortable, dry and when laying down, which most horses chose, warm. Their legs also weren't scuffed up or missing hair.
 
#27 ·
Just for reference we had enough manure hauled in from local dairies to have piles 24 foot wide and 12 foot tall. They were 660 feet long and there were 18 rows going at all times. They were at different maturity ages from just hauled to finished and ready to be stock piled for sale. Total acreage for the site was just over 20 acres. We had the stock piles we sold out of, a bagging area, plus a loading area for both pallets and loose on the other ten acres.

I didn't realize this wasn't a deep bedding thread until I posted but I agree with the rant. I'd rather keep and open mind and work with those that do than someone closed minded and thinking that stacking up years equals a pedestal worthy achievement.
 
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#29 ·
I soooo feel you. Several times I have personally delt with this kind of stupid. I got berated by a former boarder because she was 'oh so exsperianced and I didn't know what I was talking about. She used to run a bigger boarding/Training operation" when I suggest her not taking her underweight (I had just started managing the facility) poorly trained 2.5 year old who had been acting collicy out on a 12 mile trail ride. Long story short the colt went down on the trail she dumped him back in the pasture without saying anything untill much much later when she yelled at me for cauing him to go down because "I had clearly given him to much oil in his morning mush" that he hadn't even touched. Clearly her years of exsperiance made her right. She did not remain a boarder with me long after that.
Another time I was working for a "stable" right out of high school. Looking back I can see it for what it really was a back yard breeding operation. Towards the end of my time working there several mares where in foal I had asked the owner when she wanted to pull them off the fescue. She told me that she wasn't going to she was sure it would be fine she was raised on horses and never had an issue. I should have quit right then and there, but being young and nieve I stayed on. She refused to ever let me call a vet 2 ofthe mares redbaged after being a month overdue and they blamed becaused I "stressed them" by moving them to a pasture where I could monitor them.
Your rant caused me to rant.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Please don't insult good experienced hrose people with backyard horse collectors
That is like calling someone who has driven drunk for years, an experienced driver
It does show though, that many here ranting away, have not the experience in the horse industry, to be able to tell the good experienced horsemen, whether they be breeders,trainers,farriers, from the bad, Unfortunately that takes experience/time in the horse community and often by learning through the school of hard knocks!
What years do, is help you sort out those that truly are experienced, and who not just put in time, making the same mistakes over and over again
That applies to nay profession, and you only need to look at the long time vet or family doctor, who never attends any seminars,to those that continuing learning latest research, and not just stay content to practice what they learned some 20 odd years ago or more. Take the latter example, and then yes, years do make a difference
 
#30 ·
If I encounter a horse person and they right away begin to tell me that they are an experienced horse person and know so much about horses, I am immediately wary of that person.
A truly knowledgeable person does not need to announce it to all and sundry.

I really don't like people who for some reason have read something about training or seen something done and decides that everyone has to do the same, often these practices prove to be not a good idea when researched more carefully and over time, and then said person does a complete turn around just as convincingly as before when they were trying to convince you to do this practice. First they are knowledgeable when promoting something and then just as knowledgeable when ****ing said practice, they know it all.
 
#31 ·
I will admit that I was one of those people who thought they knew it all after riding for approx. 5 years on school horses in an indoor arena for an hour each week. I thought I was ready for a green horse when I turned 20 and went and bought a three turning four year old running bred paint gelding. A few nasty falls later and a few trips to the hospital to make sure I didn't break my hip AND at one point dislocating my hip (needing chiropractic work to fix it over a span of four weeks because I left it thinking I was just sore). I realized that he wasn't the right horse for me. Now in the time I had him I did learn a lot from the people I kept him at (Where I still have horses at), and realized I didn't know it all.

And with the help of my BO (I think that stands for barn owner :/), Over the past four years I've learned a lot and I'm still learning. I even successfully got Wyatt down the trails from buying him as a started 4 year old last year. I just had to learn the hard way. Thankfully Apollo has a home with someone who loves him.
 
#36 ·
I have never heard of the deep bedding as being manure. Here it would be a layer of straw and then shavings or just a deep bed of either . Manure is not meant to be stood in, that poor horse . I have also seen people make puddles in the manure to stand a horse in to soften it hooves. You make puddles in dirt or sand .

I know some well respected horse trainers, and they will give people a little advice, but are very cautious about doing so, because of liability issues.

I also know people who have ridden for years, and trained personal horses, ridden horses out for other people and just let their advice go in one ear and out the other.

There are also the people that make sense . Last but not least are the people that fill you with wonders and awes, like it makes me wonder how you can walk and not fall down . I smile and nod at those, and laugh at home.
 
#43 ·
I have never heard of the deep bedding as being manure. Here it would be a layer of straw and then shavings or just a deep bed of either . Manure is not meant to be stood in, that poor horse .
You haven't understood the basis of the deep bedding technique. The horse is NEVER standing in manure. They are standing on clean bedding. The manure is composting beneath the new clean bedding you add every day. For a good aerobic compost pile, as any experienced gardener knows, you have to create a balance between carbon and nitrogen, and between aeration and moisture. That's what deep bedding does.

What you are referring to is simply extra thick bedding on top of a clean surface. They are not anything like the same thing. Deep bedding isn't poor stable hygiene, which is what you are describing. it is a biologically sound indoor livestock management system.
 
#38 ·
@Avna

Which brings us back to one of my main points in this thread, haha; that there are billions of right, good, and correct ways to take care of a horse around the world!

I just wouldn't be able to leave manure in my horse's stall, even under clean bedding. But to each his own.
 
#39 ·
And if you(general ) are one that leaves manure then you (again general) have to compensate for that with extra bedding. The bed shouldn't start as manure. Horse people (most) are picky. Pun intended. They remove the manure that is piled on top because the idea of manure in the bedding is repugnant. Either way can be done and with no issue if you understand what you are trying to accomplish and have a basic knowledge of the process. All manure is a nitrogen source, all manure contains bacteria. Treat it right and it works for you not against you.
 
#40 · (Edited)
I think it really depends.

The most inexperienced people often talk the loudest and spout their opinions left and right as if they're fact. They're the people who call themselves "trainers" and WAY WAY blow their experience out of proportion and think because they can talk the talk, they can walk the walk when in reality they have no business teaching and don't know nearly enough to even realize how little they actually know. I'm VERY VERY weary of trainers who don't continue their education with accomplished trainers/riders. Because in a given discipline if a trainer isn't relatively accomplished I won't train with them, though I've also seen trainers who have competed FEI and are really not good riders or I wouldn't let on my horse because they lack any kind of feel or tact. It gives capable people a bad name. You get it in every discipline.

In general I stick to myself and "lay low." I have quite a bit of experience but people stress me out. I keep away from drama, socialization and people in general and just enjoy my horses, my education and developing a good relationship with my horses and the horse's I develop. I love my trainers, I love going to clinics and learning because I enjoy the journey. I don't think anyone's education is ever "complete" I think there is just more of being a student. I'll help where asked because it helps me think about better ways to explain something or see it as an opportunity to help someone but I've never felt compelled to go up to someone and talk about my "accomplishments." And when people do that or start imposing points of view with blind arrogance and no openness to discussion or conversation, I just nod my head politely and let them talk because there is no point in trying to reason with them and I wont waste my time or energy trying to convince someone to listen to reason.

I've had people say a lot of rude things to me. I ride a lot of babies and I've had some difficult horses and Ill often hear the greatest amount of arrogance from riders who don't have anywhere near the amount of experience they think they do. I know a few girls who've only ever ridden schoolmasters or old enough horses that they're not babies who will offer incredibly inaccurate "advice" or "ideas" on how they'd ride my youngsters and I just nod politely and laugh in my mind because they'd get thrown into a wall and would be stunned when they couldn't steer and realize the babies don't understand the aids of an adult and dont tolerate the same mistakes. It also makes me laugh because when you have all youngster, people seem to think you can't do the "upper level stuff" when riding ability isn't really determined by what level you show at or what you have going. Or at least in dressage you see a very wide variety of methods, skill level and ways to develop a horse. Not all are good ways but a lot of times people judge a person's ability off of the level they show at when there is a huge range of skill/knowledge/ability at every level. I've seen training level riders with more complete riding ability than FEI trainers. It just makes me laugh because Ive gone to shows and thought some novice riders had their horses going better than their trainers. Then some people seem to think if someone is "stuck" developing babies its because someone is capable enough to ride a schooled horse but really it's because someone is accomplished enough that they're asked to develop babies. It's a HUGE responsibility and takes a lot of skill and it's unfortunate it's a skill that isn't appreciated. I feel a HUGE difference between a well developed youngster and one with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing but thinks they do. But people always have to validate themselves, regardless of what is true or reasonable.

Or I'll also hear people write off rider ability because of horse "quality" which I don't get because a lot of times those higher quality horses take a lot more skill to ride well and to make them appear that "nice." Talented horses are often very athletic, highly intelligent, sensitive and have their own mind. It takes a good deal of tact and sensitivity to earn their partnership, as well as sometimes they have such large-powerful gaits it takes a lot of skill to organize it.

Basically what this ramble is about is there are a very wide variety of horse people with varying experience levels. A lot of passionate, opinionated people, a lot of condescending, snobby rude people and in general every discipline, every area of the horse world comes with a variety of different people. If people are rude/condescending and blindly arrogant, I'll interrupt and contradict them with experience but in general I just let them stew in their own. If their head is that far up their butt, they can live up there as long as there horse is ok. We're all learning, we're all growing (or should be) and should be supportive of each other. The only reason I see people tear down others or be intentionally condescending/rude, etc is because they're insecure or too inexperienced to realize they're inexperienced. And you can't reason with them, in general I just avoid them and keep living my life, enjoy my riding, continue in my education and love my horses.
 
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