Saddlebred show horses/ Walkers - Page 8 - The Horse Forum
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post #71 of 80 Old 04-03-2013, 10:10 PM
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I watched it happened in wp, equitation (western and english), english pleasure, park etc. They don't come to a screeching halt. Someone notices, tells the judge or whoever the ring master is, and things go from there. They don't always reshoe right there. That's a case by case basis. Some people do continue without a shoe. Others don't.

AQHAGirl, that's exactly why they do stop the class when it's noticed. Whether to pull the horse or not and reshoe or not is determined by the situation. It can be very dangerous having a loose shoe and nails in the arena.

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post #72 of 80 Old 04-03-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by apachiedragon View Post
I have know only a small handful that couldn't have been barefoot, and most of those could have been with the use of hoof boots. Nothing ugh about a person not being a fan of shoes.
I guess that comes down to the shoe debate, as I don't consider a horse with boots to be barefoot. For sure, it's an alternative to shoes though.

Ladydreamer, would you be willing to share pictures of your horses feet?
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post #73 of 80 Old 04-03-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Honeysuga View Post
I think what unicorn is getting at is not whether or not they need to go barefoot. More that many ss trainers and supporters use the "have to have long toes to stay sound" as an excuse when it is really a load of horse apples.
Also id like to point out to whomever stated that the longer toe/wider base is complete baloney as well. As a toe elongates especially in a shod horse the heels contract and the hoof becomes more narrow.

That is all. ;)
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The part in bold... Yes, that is exactly what I am getting at. I do keep my horses barefoot, because I can... But I have no serious objection to a correctly shod horse as long as the foot itself is healthy. (By healthy I mean the correct length and angle for the horse, the heel is wide, the frog is large and healthy, the sole is solid, there is no stretching of the laminae etc.)
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post #74 of 80 Old 04-04-2013, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
I guess that comes down to the shoe debate, as I don't consider a horse with boots to be barefoot. For sure, it's an alternative to shoes though.
That is a fair assumption. I personally still consider them barefoot if the boots are used for riding but they are not in them 24/7. Then it becomes the same thing, IMO, as sports boots or polo wraps - just another form of protection. I am not anti-shoe by any means, I just don't see the point unless it is truly a necessity. To me (not necessarily to others) the cons outweigh the pros. In addition to added expense, which can be considerable, and this is just an example, when a shod horse throws a shoe there is then the headache of not being able to ride until the farrier is able to come out and reset the shoe. But thankfully these days, more people are making an educated decision to use shoes or not, as opposed to the knee-jerk "the horse is being ridden, so it must have shoes" days of the past.

Didn't mean to derail the thread again, my apologies.
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post #75 of 80 Old 04-04-2013, 02:58 PM
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It is strange, I have been in the Saddlebred world for many many years and I have never heard anyone say that a Saddlebred needs to have a long toe to stay sound. Having a balanced foot, yes. IF the toe is longer on a horse, then the heel must match, whether that is actual heel or wedge pads. The balance of the foot is crucial to stay sound regardless of breed.

I myself have had many Saddlebreds barefoot over the years. SOME needed shoes in general but many didn't. When showing I opted for shoes. I have never been an advocate for super long feet on any breed. Just not something I like to see. That said, I have ridden/shown other peoples horses that were longer feet. I know of many people that have shown with a longer foot and can't say I have seen much lameness even as the horse got older.

One Saddlebred I knew of that was navicular had short feet his whole career and showed Country Pleasure and did trail ride as he got older as well. I had several horses that stayed sound well into their late 20's and even 30. I used to trail ride a 34 year old Saddlebred mare that had a long show career in her youth.
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post #76 of 80 Old 04-04-2013, 05:35 PM
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Annd my computer cord died(how convenient huh?). I *really* don't like writing books from my phone. I have some book excerpts I will post tonight. I think Inga is from a similar background to me. Me, I am a person who was trained by those who follow more of the "old ways". When it comes down to it, a lot of these bad individuals just need to take a trip back to the 40s and 50s and learn a bit. A lot of people think they have to reinvent the wheel to be as good as Don or Merrill... What they really need to do is just pick up a dang book and call some of the old timers that are still kicking.

There are two books I am going to quote for you on shoeing and training. One was from the 40s, the other came out last year from a super awesome, super nice trainer who is very successful.

A good horse to look at with short feet it a freakishly cool SA Stallion named Tomcat.

Right now, our show horses are still let down for the winter and I am not home(had this bright idea to move closer to my job). When everything gets back swinging for the year, I will see what I can get for you.
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post #77 of 80 Old 04-04-2013, 05:58 PM
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Another point I would have attempted to make in my earlier post (if I wasn't old and forgetful) Is that in all disciplines, there are the "short cut people" that want to get to the finish line first. They will do whatever it takes to get the most out of the horse in the shortest amount of time. There are the people that will take on a client with a mediocre quality horse and tell them how great it is and how THEY can make it a champion. They can put big shoes on and impress the client at what an insane difference they made in the horse's movement. If the person has eyes they might actually see a horse that is simply laboring.

I have always appreciated a horse that picks their feet up, not one that slams them down. There IS a difference in the movement. One is more natural, obviously. A horse that is over shod, labors in their movement and it is NOT pretty.

A horse is only as good as the feet it is standing on. Anyone worth their oats won't lame a horse on purpose. It cost the same amount to feed a good quality horse as it does a lessor quality horse. There will always people who purchase a pleasure horse and think that all it takes is some big shoes and long feet to get into the park classes. This generally doesn't work well for the horse or the people. It can be a very costly disappointment.
FACT: There are some people who let their horses feet get too long, put on shoes that are too heavy, train too hard etc....
I just don't think anyone should paint everyone in the Saddlebred industry with the same broad brush. It isn't fair.
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post #78 of 80 Old 04-04-2013, 08:21 PM
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I had wondered when the Morgans were going to get thrown into this debate...

One Morgan trainer does not define all Morgan show barns and I'm shocked that people even lump show Morgans in with the whole TWH scandals.

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post #79 of 80 Old 04-05-2013, 11:30 AM
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Is SA Tomcat in big pads/stacks or are his feet really that tall? There is something bugging me about his feet, and can't see a good picture of his feet to tell if it's his foot itself or some kind of big pad on him. To me he looks a bit like he's on least in any video of him, and few photos show his feet clearly, I know, I am being a pain in the ass, but I don't call how he's done up "normal looking". He obviously doesn't move unsound, but I question if there is really no difference in the strain on his body with that posture. (I am thinking along the lines of a woman in heels everyday for years... At the time there is no serious discomfort for most, but, it changes the way she walks, stands, and over time has been proven to cause foot problems, leg problems, and back problems).

Other than that, yes, his foot itself appears better than most of what is published by ASHA and typically seen in articles of winners. From what I can see his toe is a "correct" length and his heel appears wider and in better shape than most I've seen, and I am guessing what I am seeing as a lot of hoof might actually be pads, not his feet.

In regards to our judging "the whole sport by the actions of a few"... Bear in mind, most of what I know is based on ASHA publications. If it really is a case of a few bad eggs why doesn't the breed promotion reflect that?
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post #80 of 80 Old 04-05-2013, 12:06 PM
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I think sa tomcats feet look ok. No great pics of them but thats not surprising. I will say that ermergerd hes purrrrty though!!!
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