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Seabiscuit v. Secretariat

This is a discussion on Seabiscuit v. Secretariat within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Secretariat related to northern dancer?
  • Man o war v seattle slew

 
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    10-10-2010, 11:16 AM
  #31
Foal
Well I think that actually if you could have thrown in Northern Dancer into the mix, then he would have won. He still stands as the undefeated triple crown winner!! At least I think so. IF I am wrong please correct me.
On another note my OTTB has him in her bloodlines and also Seattle Slew, who is a brother to Secretariat!!
     
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    10-10-2010, 11:37 AM
  #32
Yearling
That's another thing I really dislike about horse racing- all the bad things that happen around it. :/

Really, Northern Dancer? I can't say I've heard of him, I'd love to hear others opinions on him.

That's cool that you can trace the bloodlines back- a TB at my boarding barn is distantly related to Man O' War and Seattle Slew, but both sired many foals, so... haha, I guess it's still cool to know though! I wish I knew if my mare was related to anyone cool. :)
     
    10-10-2010, 01:20 PM
  #33
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj    
I'm very eager to see it.

I have been a diehard Man O' War fan all my life. I think it really boils down to a Man O' War VS Secretariat when you're talking world's most famous/well known racehorses. It reminds me of Team Edward and Team Jacob, LOL.

I've read Walter Farley's version of Man O' War, and I think that's a huge factor. I'm extremely interested to see if Secretariat's story moves me to sway my opinion at all.

I also hold Man O' War in high regard because he was a good SIRE. Seabiscuit and Secretariat were freak flukes - Man O' War was the real deal. I measure the greatness of a horse not by what he is, but what he has done. Man O' Wars influence on the Thoroughbred breed is almost tangible - he was a magnificent racehorse, but he was a legendary sire.

Maybe they'll make a Man O' War movie next.

The problem with comparing horses is they came from different times and ran on surfaces that have gotten better and better through the years.

Seabuscuit never ran the triple crown because of circumstances that occurred when most horse were preparing their horses for that race Seabuscuit was considered too lazy and the people that brought him around came too late. They all ran on dirt tracks that were nowhere near as good as they are now.

What lowers him in my opinion is that he couldn't pass any of his greatness on to the next or following generations.

Secretariat was a great horse but again he ran on better track than Man O'War did so by comparison I would give the edge to Man O'War.

As far as breeding again maybe Man O'War as he was able to pass his greatness DIRECTLY to the first generation but remember that not all horses pass their stuff to the first generation and Secretariate did his best genetic passing through his grandsons and grand daughters through mostly his FEMALE offspring.

Phar Lap really was a freak of nature. Great race horse but was a gelding so we would never know what he might have produced and his untimely death killed any chance of knowing what he would have done racing wise in North America.

Ruffian...I saw the actual race as it unfolded...so very very sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseluver2435    
Really, Northern Dancer? I can't say I've heard of him, I'd love to hear others opinions on him.

Then you need to read about TB more.

Northern dancer has been without a doubt the most prolific breeding sire in the last half century. Virtually EVERY TB out there carries his bloodline. In the breeders stake over the last few years 90 % of all contestants carried his blood ( remember in one race they confirmed that EVERY horse had his blood within the last 2 generations). It is in France, England, Japan and Middle East. His sons are spread over the world and they themselves are multiple stakes winners and have produced multiple stakes winners. His sons or grand sons/daughters won every top prestigious race in the world.

Won 2 of the three American triple crown and who knows ..may have won the Preakness as the jockey was told NEVER to hit the horse but the jockey did hit him. He also developed a quarter crack just before the Preakness. Not 3 weeks later he won the Queen's Plate.

To me Northern Dancer in ALL aspects comes out on top.
     
    10-10-2010, 01:38 PM
  #34
Started
I'm very partial to Man O' War. For the most part, you can thank his racing genes for all of these big name racehorses. :)
     
    10-10-2010, 02:31 PM
  #35
Yearling
I apologize, Spyder- but I did mention I know nothing about TB/horseracing- sounds like I'm going to have to read up on him. Sounds like a pretty amazing horse.

Hmm... sounds like there's a poll in the making here.
     
    10-10-2010, 05:47 PM
  #36
Green Broke
Great post Spyder! I couldn't agree more - Northern Dancer probably tops them all. I think he's not as well known because although he was a great racehorse he didn't have one of those great "stories" that made horses like Man O' War or Secretariat so famous. He left a more quiet legacy, although he WAS the first horse ever inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall Of Fame (Big Ben was recently the second).

I am definitely more impressed though by any horse that can pass his or her greatness on as opposed to simply being a fluke. The stories are great for morale, and fantastic to hear, I just prefer the legacy that lives on for generations.

Someone commented on Phar Lap, and as far as the stories go, everyone believes he was poisoned because he was "too good". People were frustrated with him being such a sure thing, and as no insurance was really involved, it's considered pretty much fact that he was killed just for being too **** fast. It was REALLY common back then, more then a few racehorses met their ultimate demise by jealous competitors tired of losing.
     
    10-10-2010, 08:09 PM
  #37
Yearling
MM: That's even worse. How awful...
I actually just realized I recognize Northern Dancer from my great big book of Kentucky Derby winners. But that's all I know of him. Sounds pretty amazing though.
     
    10-10-2010, 09:22 PM
  #38
Super Moderator
I don't think I could watch a movie about Ruffian. It would surely leave me a sniffling crying baby. I never watched the Pharlap movies for that reason.

My horse has Man O' War in his bloodlines. It's 8 generations back but I still think it's pretty cool.

If they do make a Man O' War movie, I kind of hope they go with the Walter Farley version. I loved that book.
     
    10-10-2010, 10:56 PM
  #39
Yearling
Oh, farmpony, I cry so much when I watch Ruffian, it's obnoxious. It leaves my family absolutely baffled. But it's a very good movie all the same.
     

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