I stumbled across these videos (actually there are MANY, but I thought this was a good representation).
Why don't we breed horses like this in the United States? They are Lusitanos and they HAVE to be some of the most beautifully moving horses in the world. I've been watching a lot of videos of the Portuguese horse festivals over the past few days and it saddens me that we don't breed horses like this over here.
I know there are probably a few breeders or importers, but gee, the whole riding style and conformation of the horses is so very different from what we seem to value in the States. They are so lovely. Why don't we value and breed horses like this? Their every move seems so effortless and dare I say, "collected." And they are just gorgeous to boot.
There are a few in the US and in reality, a horse like this would be my dream come true. Unfortunately, given the price of them I'd never be able to afford one! Yes, if they became more common the price would come down but so
far that isn't happening. This type of horse is candy to my eye!
Right now in my area, someone is breeding and cross breeding Friesians.(as an example) Some are pure and of decent quality but he is letting outside off-breeding and some really strange looking horses are the result. I've looked at the horses he has for sale and can't justify paying that much for a horse when I can get super nice Quarter horses for a quarter of that.
Also, a lot of people want to show and you'd have to travel to the specialty circuit to have a chance of even placing. By owning Quarter horses, a person can easily find 10 shows within driving distance!
I second the cross breeding thing. I'm almost glad we don't have a lot of them here because we would have some CRAZY looking crosses. Around here people have a few Friesians and they will cross them with any old nag and try to sell them for 10 000$+. On our local listings someone had "1/4 Friesian 3/4 standardbred brood mare- great Friesian stock to add to any breeding program" listed as 7000$. Like really??
I see a lot of poorer quality horses in the states with poorer movement. A few lusitanos are that have been imported are lovely. But many have strong personalities from hundreds of years of being bred for being a bullfighter's horse. That is often a much bolder horse than the "average" owner is comfortable breaking/training/riding. There are certainly lines that are less driven, but I often compare them to border collies. They can be lovely to watch, but I don't always want to live with them. And the ones that breeders are actively working to improve temperament and movement on are often very, very expensive.
There are Lusitano's here but unless you've got a 'job' for them they're too expensive for the average rider and too 'high geared' for anyone that wants a quiet relaxing trail ride
We had a person that boarded her horses with us in the UK that imported one from Portugal, a lovely mare but she wasn't as good at jumping or dressage as a purpose bred WB and no good for UK showing classes so she sold her on to a breeder.
Breeding is one thing but to get quality and consistency the cull is equally important, and while they have probably been at it long enough now, they are producing consistent results, I imagine they culled hard in the beginning. Americans don't have the stomach to cull and that is why the kill pens and craigslist are full of unwanted stock.
In Spain they have the Yeguada Militar de Jerez de Frontera where they breed Andalusians and Arabians. The culls are used to feed the military and the army comes and picks them up every year. This is how they made and Keep consistently superior horses in their bands. It also serves to keep prices stable.
The Lusitano's in Portugal are the horses used for bull fighting, if they get injured they get shot. Another UK friend rescued such a horse when she saw it injured while on holiday over there, the owner had no interest in treating it at all and took a lot of persuading to let her have it. He was a lovely horse and well worth her effort and cost of stitching him up
I do not see too many breeders of these horses in my province. There is a barn not far from me that does breed Lusitanos. But they also cross them, so not too sure what the cross-breds look like. I did see one of the pure Lusitano horses out on a poker rally. Beautiful horse but WAY too hot for an event like that.
...I know there are probably a few breeders or importers, but gee, the whole riding style and conformation of the horses is so very different from what we seem to value in the States...Why don't we value and breed horses like this?...
Speaking for myself, they are not horses who move like I desire. In Arizona, at least, I think most people buy horses for trail rides, and a horse bred for collection isn't bred for what they want to do. I'm sure they ARE available for the high end market, but not for a "Craigslist" trail riding horse.
I love Arabians, and currently ride an Arabian/Mustang mix, but HE isn't what a lot of folks around here want in a horse, either. Neither was Mia, the purebred Arabian mare I rode for 7 years with varying degrees of success. I consider my horse to be a level-headed fellow with a lot of good sense, but I accept we might sometimes do some sideways dancing and that he rides best with an active rider. But where I live, lots of riders don't want to work while riding. They prefer my daughter's approach:
It is supply and demand. The people who visit me who want to go ride in the desert love how Trooper (the horse above) moves - safe, secure, no effort required. They value "Steady Eddys". I value efficient movement, and collection is extra work for a horse. So horses who naturally move with a lot of collection, and who require an active rider, are a niche market - and niche markets are small and cost more.
Speaking for myself, they are not horses who move like I desire. In Arizona, at least, I think most people buy horses for trail rides, and a horse bred for collection isn't bred for what they want to do.
Same here. I have a neighbor who imports Friesians (I think that's what they are) from Europe, and as far as I can tell does nothing but ride them in circles around her arena, sometimes go to a show, then sells them to someone with IMHO more money than sense.
They're pretty horses, but no prettier than my 'free to good home" Ellie, and I'd much rather ride my friend's butt-ugly but rock solid mustang on the trail than one of them.
Beautiful Horses!
I only watched about half of the first video and I noticed that the riders were mostly men, I saw a few more women in the second video.
Amazing that no one got kicked, I didn't see one horse even offer to kick out and no rearing. Some of the horses were held on pretty tight holds but some danced around but did not rear.
Has anyone seen the horses that Lorenzo rides and shows? They are Andalusions and beautiful too.
Iberian horses are not easy horses. they are sensitive and opinionated. they take a special approach. the two (yes , I only know of two people who have owned lusitanos) that I've seen both ended up being sold on due to being just too difficult. they 'challenged ' their owners regularly.
So does my QH/Fox Trotter cross. But I admit I am a poor trainer. :sad:
The horses in the video are very hot but also extremely well behaved. I saw not one kick or one horse truly out of control. It's quite possible they are just better horse trainers over there. :sad:
But I have ridden hot horses. Arabians and Fox Trotters (and one Thoroughbred). As long as they are nicely trained and not disobedient, a horse with a lot of "go" is a blast to ride. My Fox Trotter mare is barn sour (was before I got her, I did not cause it) and I must admit, as annoying as it is, she is a blast to ride. Annoying because it's a bad behavior. But it makes me smile because she is so much fun. As long as you feel safe, all that power makes you smile. Well, I do anyway. I have friends that I'm sure would find it annoying. But different strokes for different folks. Not everyone likes the same type of horse.
^I actually disagree with the above. (EDIT @trailhorserider not @tinyliny My post was too slow)
There are still Arabs and Thoroughbreds that are priced like 'Ferraris' (for our intents and purposes.) But there are more of them that are 'Ford' priced. Lower quality models, so to speak.
The issue comes down to price.
I'd love to own and ride one too, but the last time I went horse shopping my budget was 10k. 10k won't get me near a high end Lusitano.
I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not a horse is hot--most any equine 'athlete' will have a healthy amount of go. I just don't think they've really found their niche.
^I actually disagree with the above. (EDIT @trailhorserider not @tinyliny My post was too slow)
There are still Arabs and Thoroughbreds that are priced like 'Ferraris' (for our intents and purposes.) But there are more of them that are 'Ford' priced. Lower quality models, so to speak.
The issue comes down to price.
I'd love to own and ride one too, but the last time I went horse shopping my budget was 10k. 10k won't get me near a high end Lusitano.
I can't afford a high-end anything. My horse budget is around $2000. (And I paid that for a Mustang because he was perfect for me. My last bargain horse was $500.)
It's not that I am looking to buy one. I just don't know why we don't have more of them over here. Or why we don't breed horses with these characteristics. Maybe TinyLiny is right, they are just too sensitive? Are they more sensitive or tempermental than Arabians? Because people like to talk poorly about Arabians and I owned two that were fabulous trail horses. My very first horse was an Arabian. He was more QH-like in disposition though. :wink:
Do I look at these horses and see beauty? Yes I do, but also see beauty in all the other breeds too. The thing is to my eye nothing can be more gorgeous than a well built qh or match their athleticism. Thankfully we all have different opinions and that is why we have so many different breeds available to choose from. Variety is the spice of life!
Trailhorserider, you can get a watered down version of meeting like minded people, talking horse all day, and getting to observe a variety of horses just by taking your horse to a camp/trail place for a weekend. I used to go to Brown Co. (state park that had a horse camp) all the time and if I saw a horse that moved a lot differently and talked to their rider about their horse I almost always got an invitation to take it for it a little spin. I got my first ride on several different gaited breeds that way. This was back in the day before the internet and the info available to know much about breeds other than what you had immediately around you.
I agree with tinyliny. If the Iberian breeds were more widespread and cheaper, I suspect that many beginners would get them because of their beauty and grace...and then become disappointed or even injured because of their strong characters, high level of energy and also their physical build, which doesn't really make them competitive in the arenas of most common equestrian disciplines.
Wonderful horses. But I'd be really sad for all the destroyed Iberians that would eventually get sent off to slaughter just because somebody once wanted to get a fairytale horse, although what they really needed was a sure footed, level minded, versatile QH or grade.
The Lusitano's in Portugal are very much a part of their tradition and their Tourist Industry which makes up a big part of that countries income which is why they breed for the best and cull the rest
It would be a bad thing for the breed if they were suddenly indiscriminately mass produced over here so everyone could afford one - you only have to look at the differences between a top class Arabian that most average people can't afford and the cheap 'throwaway' Arabians that have emerged from that poor breeding frenzy a few decades ago to know that it would be a mistake
Too often a horse that needs an experienced rider because its 'hot' and sensitive gets labeled dangerous by someone who shouldn't even be riding it
I missed the point of the OP I think in my original response.
Tradition has been mentioned but I think the depth of horse culture in a country is important to consider. We live in a country that has a reasonably short time line. By the time this country had progressed far enough into horse development to start producing type, much beyond utilitarian, we had entered into the automobile age. Instead of these flashy traditional horses that were kind of developed as bragging type or visually appealing animated horses that verged on the edge of useful, our country merged into hot rods and muscle cars.
Hopefully the way I convey that sounds in print like it does in my mind.
the issue that there is not a huge demand for that type of horse is what type of riding Americans do. there is a huge demand for western/stock horses (hence the 4 million registers quarter horses). Arabians are bred for Arabians shows but now that endurance took off the have a second purpose and now have a second use. they also make good western horses. TBs are bred in excess. not every tb will make it on (or to) the track so there are plenty that are available for cheep. Frisians there is plenty of demand for but you wont see them doing barrels, cutting, high jumping, speed event and your average trail rider wont forkover that type of money on a trail horse. BUT they are purdy, can do driving and flat work. Andalusians and lusatano (there are a few breeders out here) CAN do western but there are no shows geared towards them and western events out here. why spend that type of money on a lusatano when i could pay 1-3k for a decent paint/qh foal and train it, or event a young broke one?
That being said my GOAL is to eventually GET a lusatano for dressage and MAYBE low level jumping. But i dont expect it to be the next 3 day eventer as it dose not have the speed or stamina needed for such events.
Many years ago, I had someone in my joust troupe who had a Luisitano mare. She was very beautiful, but we all soon learned that for some reason that I can't explain, she was boring and no fun to ride. My friend had her for sale for YEARS and many many people came out to look at her, but no one ever bought her because she was just clunky and no fun. I am thinking she must have been a "cull." My friend got suckered into buying her because she was beautiful. She did not move nicely like those videos. She was a boring plug.
Andalusians were bred for working livestock over here - they are used as stock horses on the farms that breed fighting bulls. They have to be brave, powerful and obedient. Only a tiny percentage are actually used in bull-fighting, and rejoneo (bull-fighting from horseback) is a very specialised art.
(Internet photo)
No reason why they couldn't be used as stock horses in the US too - except that you already have an excellent stock horse in the QH, with a great depth and diversity of bloodlines - so why start with another breed when the bloodstock available might not be the best for breeding real working horses.
Now w, when I look at that picture, tight rein contact and compare to the type of horse I like as a working cowhorse, no comparison!
Far as bull fighting horses being 'brave', look up some of the head gear used on those horses, like the Serieta. Harsh equipment like that is used, because that sport demands unquestioning obedience
Nope, rather watch a good cutting horse, reading that cow, working that cow on his own, or a working cowhorse taking a cow down the fence
Thanks for chiming in Bondre. I guess I'm lucky to live where there are a lot of these horses. They are a bit fire-ey to look at, but the charro guys around here love trail riding them. We also have a lot of Aztecas, they look like they would make great stock horses.
Its been posted on HF before but its good enough to post again I think
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