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teaching manners

This is a discussion on teaching manners within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        05-04-2013, 03:43 AM
      #11
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NorthernMama    
    Seems to me the OP is "whining" about not being the leader as much as the greenie is whining about having to lead. And the OP is "whining" about mounting up. Not trying to pick on the OP, just saying that there are two sides and why is it that one side is OK to complain and the other isn't? Maybe the two children can take turns and share playing leader. "I wanna" "No, I wanna" is what I read in this.

    Okay, I realize that it's not just as clear cut as that with one rider being more seasoned than the other, but my train of thought is that if I know what I'm doing and my horse is behaving, then I'm all good. If the other person and horse isn't and they want to learn from me, I'll help. If not, God help them and I'll just enjoy my ride my way.

    I don't see how this is risking safety if the OP's horse is stable and the OP is stable. Sounds like that isn't the case though in which case why ride with someone who is green?
    Big problem with riders they forget. We were all green once and some take longer than others to gain confidence and ability. Not to mention the different riding. My pet peve is treking with the experts and climbing a bank, forcing through scrub then getting to the top of the hill the bloody leaders have stopped and are not only blocking the way I'm stuck on a horse that is straining to not fall back wards because the experts have parked right on the top of the hill blocking others from getting onto level ground. Experts. My definition is, X is the unknown quantity and spurt is a drip under pressure.
         
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        05-04-2013, 05:07 AM
      #12
    Weanling
    Hmm, it makes the situation a little harder given that you live with this person AND the horses are his. I think if he wants to ride out in front and gets so bent out of shape about it then let him ride in front.

    If you feel that its too unsafe for you or the horses then don't ride his horses.

    He sounds like a pain in the butt to be honest and not much fun to ride with.
         
        05-04-2013, 05:59 AM
      #13
    Cat
    Green Broke
    There sounds to be a training issue going on if your horse walks off while being mounted. I don't care what the other horses are doing around me - my horse stays until I'm on and I ask for a walk forward or they get corrected. I don't care if its my horse or a friend's - I still expect them to stand still during mounting and will handle the situation accordingly. A horse walking off while mounting can be extremely dangerous. And if you don't know how to correct this - maybe you are not such the veteran rider of the two of you that you think you are. Just think about it.

    And if there are just two of us riding we swap around who is being in the lead. Its good for the riders and its good for the horses - green or experienced, doesn't matter. And quite frankly the "I'm on the faster walking horse" makes you sound childish. If you are riding together it should not matter which horse can be faster - you should be going the same speed no matter who is in front. It would be a bit rude if you were the leader and since your horse moved faster you kept leaving the other person behind.

    Quote:
    the person I ride with just doesnt wanna follow but has no clue what to do when it comes to holdin a branch- or warning me about things on the trail..
    I must ride with a lot of rude people. We don't hold branches for each other. We do ensure we don't let them snap back in the face of the rider behind us, but we don't sit there holding them for each other either. And what kind of warnings are you expecting on the trail? We only call out holes in the ground typically - I.e. Something that may break a leg that might not be easily visible. Now if we are in a large group and there are those in the back that might not be able to see past riders in front we will call out horses coming the other way on the trail or deer - but that tends to only apply in larger groups. In a group of 2 or 3 - most riders can see that for themselves. The people I ride with expect everyone to hold a certain amount of responsibility for themselves.

    Honestly, the impression I receive from your post is that of a backseat driver - and that is never the vibe you want to give off if you are hoping the other person to be receptive to what you have to say. It may very well be the reason why he listens to others and not you. If you are finding what you are saying is not being received well - you really may want to look at the way you are asking or presenting things.

    Also take a good look at your own riding and your own experience - are you really that much better than the other rider or are you overestimating your own skill? Its very easy to do and a trap many riders fall in, but the other rider can pick up that fact and learn to tune the one trying to give advice out even when its something valid and important. So always take a good look at yourself first and what you can do to improve the situation (i.e. Work on the horse to stand still until you say its okay to move forward, learn to be aware of your own surroundings and not rely on the leader, etc) before picking apart the other person you are riding with.

    Make sure you are not nagging and pick your battles - work on improving the important things and let the little things fall to the side. Be the bigger person and offer compromises as well - I.e. Taking turns at being the leader. And if there is something really dangerous on the trail that he did't call out, just say "You know, I would appreciate it if you let me know if you see something like that." But don't nag about little things - only comment on big important things.
         
        05-04-2013, 08:26 AM
      #14
    Green Broke
    After reading a few more of your posts that give more insight I have to ask. What are the 30 different things you are trying to teach your roommate? If you two are simply out for a trail ride them just sit back and enjoy the trail. Try not to ruin the scenery with technicalities about proper manners. You are the seasoned rider and should be able to pull back on the reins if he decides to take off on his horse.

    He may be rude and not respect you, but you aren't gaining his respect by trying to shove your disciplines down his throat so he can be all stiff backed and proper. I understand that isn't the meaning you were trying for, but it's what it comes across as with what you are saying. You should relax and enjoy the view along the trail even if it is behind him so you can see when he gets in trouble and rush up to help him up with a smile and an "I told you so", lol. I take rides with my daughter who has no more a clue about proper riding ethics than I do. I didn't even know there was such a thing until reading this thread. I mean, I know to give someone a heads up about rough terrain coming up so they can prepare themselves in saddle or of a wasp nest close to the trail, but figure they will be far enough behind me to see the branch I'm releasing and know they will need to grab it to pass by.


    How can you enjoy the trail if you are constantly worrying about what they are doing or where they are in relation to you? I hope you understand what I'm trying to say and not take so harshly.
         
        05-04-2013, 11:41 AM
      #15
    Yearling
    If someone was riding MY horse and telling ME what to do, they wouldn't get another invitation to ride MY horse, roommate or not.
         
        05-04-2013, 03:19 PM
      #16
    Started
    ToTo

    How about training the horse you are riding to do what you want.
    Not to walk off untill told to. I do see the danger for you half mounted so to speak, and the horse needs to catch its paddock mate.
    I agree with Roaddy and just let the horse follow and it sounds to me as it is the follower and is happy in that position but how does it act when front.

    Here is some thing, you teach the horse the one rein stop, if you are unaware of it then it is getting the horse to freely give its head when asked for and allow it to be places by the riders boot nose to toe. When I ask that of my horse I give its cheek a gentle scratch and a few kind words, but what to does is, it disengages the rear end and the horse when taught will stand still. Both sides. If you know this then I am not trying to get you to suck eggs. I am assuming your riding is english style.

    I also will assume you mount the horse from the left or right does not matter so ask the horse to bend its head to where what will be your toe position on the oppersite side you are mounting, then get on, the worst the horse will do is move in a circle in the direction you are mounting from. Then sit in the saddle for a minute before moving off.
    I use this on my horse frequently, it is the horses safe place, and it learns it. It is also my safe place and I can get off if need be.

    It also works on the horse that tries to step away form one just as you try to get a leg up.

    Another is to train the horse when following, get it to stop and stand for a second then move on and increase the length of time untill it accepts being left behind the other horse. I know you may feel why should you train the horse but to me it sounds like if it up sets you so much, then the options are. As I said in an earlier post, get ready earlier and be the first to walk off. As Roadyy has mention just let the horse follow and enjoy, or train the horse to do as you ask, because, it is not at this time is it.


    Good luck and if that all fails give him to a Kiwi female rider, she will sort him
    toto likes this.
         
        05-04-2013, 04:45 PM
      #17
    Banned
    No no no! Im not tryin to shove my horsey knowledge down his throat! I say somethin if the situation is dangerous-- I don't criticize his every move.. don't care if he's slouchin ridin with the wrong hand if his pad matches his shirt or if his heals are pointed, lol.


    I don't care who it is-- if you drop your horses reins on the ground and their tied together im going to say somethin-- 'dont let your horse step on those'. I've had people come up and say worse when I was younger so I try to be very understanding about peoples feelings when it comes to horses- or when tryin somethin new period- because I don't want to be the reason they quit doin somethin they enjoy but that's how im feelin right now.. its just so frusterating..


    I don't want the horse im ridin to have horrible manners! Its aggravating! And to be told 'shes too old to be taught' just infuriates me even more.. I know- I know- anger management...imma blame PMS! It seems a little silly to me how frusterated I was but I just want to avoid the situation entirely! I just moved here and know no one in the horsey business around me-- kinda feel helpless-- I either ride this horse with this person or don't ride at al-- ugh! Need some equine friends that live around me.. I just don't know how to start all over from scratch..
         
        05-04-2013, 05:16 PM
      #18
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by toto    


    I don't want the horse im ridin to have horrible manners! Its aggravating! And to be told 'shes too old to be taught' just infuriates me even more.. I know- I know- anger management...imma blame PMS! It seems a little silly to me how frusterated I was but I just want to avoid the situation entirely! I just moved here and know no one in the horsey business around me-- kinda feel helpless-- I either ride this horse with this person or don't ride at al-- ugh! Need some equine friends that live around me.. I just don't know how to start all over from scratch..

    I do try to learn this mare.. I've worked with her quite a bit!
    I know the happy medium between too much and too little and when I work with this mare the owner says 'its too much' because 'shes too old to need to learn these things' when that's not true! If I (or anyone else) is going to have to ride this mare she needs to not be so dangerous! She was a bloter and has broken someone elses bones! I will not put up with this and I will correct things she does but I get bitched at for correcting her.. I know she's not mine but if im riding her she's going to respect me-- point blank! No exceptions!



    Im no way too harsh on her.. she's kicked the owner and even me because she wasnt corrected in the past. I quickly corrected it-- and yes! I was talkin a little rough- I just got kicked in the ankle by a disrespectful horse because the owner made his horse trot away and I did not want to trot her through the field.. its all about manners! Your choices affect others around you in the horse world and people need to be considerate to the fact!
    Stan likes this.
         
        05-04-2013, 05:35 PM
      #19
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by toto    


    I don't want the horse im ridin to have horrible manners! Its aggravating! And to be told 'shes too old to be taught' just infuriates me even more.. I know- I know- anger management...imma blame PMS! It seems a little silly to me how frusterated I was but I just want to avoid the situation entirely! I just moved here and know no one in the horsey business around me-- kinda feel helpless-- I either ride this horse with this person or don't ride at al-- ugh! Need some equine friends that live around me.. I just don't know how to start all over from scratch..

    I do try to learn this mare.. I've worked with her quite a bit!
    I know the happy medium between too much and too little and when I work with this mare the owner says 'its too much' because 'shes too old to need to learn these things' when that's not true! If I (or anyone else) is going to have to ride this mare she needs to not be so dangerous! She was a bloter and has broken someone elses bones! I will not put up with this and I will correct things she does but I get bitched at for correcting her.. I know she's not mine but if im riding her she's going to respect me-- point blank! No exceptions!



    Im no way too harsh on her.. she's kicked the owner and even me because she wasnt corrected in the past. I quickly corrected it-- and yes! I was talkin a little rough- I just got kicked in the ankle by a disrespectful horse because the owner made his horse trot away and I did not want to trot her through the field.. its all about manners! Your choices affect others around you in the horse world and people need to be considerate to the fact!



    *oh my god! I just typed so much and all was lost.. thank you, horse forum! This is gettin OLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.*


    UGHHH! Can't remember a **** thing I've typed either..:c ry:


    *RESTORE*

    Didnt work.. sorry.. not tpin that all over again..
         
        05-04-2013, 05:51 PM
      #20
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stan    
    ToTo

    How about training the horse you are riding to do what you want.
    Not to walk off untill told to. I do see the danger for you half mounted so to speak, and the horse needs to catch its paddock mate.
    I agree with Roaddy and just let the horse follow and it sounds to me as it is the follower and is happy in that position but how does it act when front.

    Here is some thing, you teach the horse the one rein stop, if you are unaware of it then it is getting the horse to freely give its head when asked for and allow it to be places by the riders boot nose to toe. When I ask that of my horse I give its cheek a gentle scratch and a few kind words, but what to does is, it disengages the rear end and the horse when taught will stand still. Both sides. If you know this then I am not trying to get you to suck eggs. I am assuming your riding is english style.

    I also will assume you mount the horse from the left or right does not matter so ask the horse to bend its head to where what will be your toe position on the oppersite side you are mounting, then get on, the worst the horse will do is move in a circle in the direction you are mounting from. Then sit in the saddle for a minute before moving off.
    I use this on my horse frequently, it is the horses safe place, and it learns it. It is also my safe place and I can get off if need be.

    It also works on the horse that tries to step away form one just as you try to get a leg up.

    Another is to train the horse when following, get it to stop and stand for a second then move on and increase the length of time untill it accepts being left behind the other horse. I know you may feel why should you train the horse but to me it sounds like if it up sets you so much, then the options are. As I said in an earlier post, get ready earlier and be the first to walk off. As Roadyy has mention just let the horse follow and enjoy, or train the horse to do as you ask, because, it is not at this time is it.


    Good luck and if that all fails give him to a Kiwi female rider, she will sort him

    She wants to lead then stopps and from there we play leapfrog.. not a big deal except theyll both stop-- owner can't get his horse movin (ican get his horse movin) and from there the fight begins.. lol.

    Im not allowed to train this horse because the owner believes 'shes too old to need to learn the things' I try to teach her.. I've said many times *if she's. Going to be a ridin horse she needs to know these things* owner says 'just don't ride her' the next day 'you wanna go ride the horses?' I compair it to constipation..


    She knows how to stop and does it at the word 'woah' she will slide to a stop. She flexes at the poll, bends laterally, stops, neck reins, she gives to pressure, she will sidepass in hand, counter pivot, and will go through all gaits-- I've taught her to respect my space and she does this well-- she just wants to be where her buddy is.. she's buddyspoiled! I realize this and the owner doesnt want it fixed. 'Shes too old' and 'im bein too harsh' when I try to correct anything- im actually bein very easy.. I try several different things if the first thing I try doesnt work-- she is the type of horse that overreacts to everything! Shed paw my head off for tryin to pick up her hooves when I first started messin with her.. I didnt slap her in the head with a 2x4, I kept messin with her feet till she got over her little temper tantrums! Lol.

    Oooo you must think im fancy if you think I ride english? Lol. I do but havent in many years.. wait.. are you sayin im bein snobby?

    Oh she stands when the other horse aint movin.. she's buddy spoiled.. she stands when the other horse does.. and its different every day-- sometimes she is stuck up our geldings butt the other she wants nothin to do with him-- very wishywashy mare, lol.
         

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