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tricky situation... advice requested...

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        06-08-2012, 03:55 PM
      #21
    Foal
    I'm not really big into showing, but I tagged along with a friend to a bunch of AQHA shows including Dixie Nationals. The trainer that she took to Dixie Nationals had other students going as well. All the students split the hotel cost for him and paid for their own stuff. He put in tails, helped them school, even rode the horse for them if they needed it. I am not sure on the exact price, but I don't think he charged more than 100 a day. AND he did almost all the work! She went to a local show, with a different trainer and that trainer pretty much ignored her the whole time she was there. Didn't help groom or anything. She barely even went over patterns with her. Then she tried charging her 50 each day (so 150) for "day fees".

    IMO, if you take a trainer to a show, and they ignore you the whole time, then they weren't there to school you. It seems to me like she just used you to pay her show fees. Personally, I would sit her down and tell her that you felt like she didn't help you at all and that you didn't feel like she fulfilled her end of the bargain for the price she asked and ask her what she thinks her jobs are at the shows. See if you can work it out with her about what you expect, and how much you will pay.

    On the other hand, I know that you really like riding/training with her and don't want to burn your bridge. Honestly, I would just be upfront about it, tell her that you just cannot afford to pay for her help at the big show and that's it. You are her CLIENT, not her sugarmama (to be blunt). It is up to you whether or not you want to have her school you. If you don't feel you need her help, she shouldn't have a problem with it. And if she does? Then I would start looking for a trainer that actually cares about you and your horse and not the money you give them.

    AGAIN, JUST MY OPINION

    And btw... GOOD LUCK AT YOUR SHOW!!!! I love big horse shows, so competitive and scary and yet fun! Post pics!!!!
    Nitefeatherz and Foxhunter like this.
         
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        06-09-2012, 12:57 AM
      #22
    Yearling
    First of all, CONGRATS on placing so well at your show! To me, it sounds like your trainer did a great job at getting you prepared prior to the show. I'm going to be honest, if all I had to pay was $170 for my horse to be trailered to the show, and my trainer just available if I needed him, I'd be ecstatic. That's a bargain for a trainer that has obviously put the time into you and your horse that you are placing so well!
         
        06-09-2012, 03:16 AM
      #23
    Foal
    With grace- the reason the OP is doing so well may not have much to do with the trainer. I have known quite a few people who excelled at what they were doing despite poor trainers simply because they were naturals with a lot of talent. Not saying that its not all the trainer-but in ANY situation I wouldn't tolerate any kind of fee from a trainer that wasn't doing anything on a particular day. If she is being charged hen the trainer owes it to her to give her the attention required. If the trainer is going to be distracted by her own competition or by other clients then that should be taken into account when charging fees.
    I think the main problem here is not laying out expectations as to what is going to happen in exchange for the fees charged: if the trainer expects you to pay them then as a trainer she needs to lay out-preferably in writing- what you are getting for those fees. If you have questions about it then she obviously isn't being clear enough and that needs to be rectified so everyone is on the same page.

    If she has issues with you not wanting her help at the big show I would find another trainer. You can always find another great trainer who wont give you problems.
         
        06-09-2012, 09:13 AM
      #24
    Yearling
    I was just imagining myself requesting, in writing, a list of agreed upon expectations between my trainer and myself and I got anxious about such just sitting here at home!

    My husband and I have been talking a lot lately about the "two types" of people in the world; those who go out and GET WHAT THEY DESERVE from others with assertiveness, (not aggression, of course) & with a knowledge that they have worked hard, put a lot of themselves into xyz, and thus, feel no shame in setting out clear expectations for what they feel they are as a result entitled to. Then there are those like myself, and to some degree, my husband (in certain business situations). I feel ashamed to "go after that which is mine", to push an issue in my favor when I KNOW IT IS DESERVED, not just an entitlement because I exsist on the planet and breathe air (I can't STAND THAT KIND of entitlement!)...the point is, the first type of person is the one who gets ahead in life, and the second type (much like I have lived for 38 years!) Is the sort happy to subsist on the scraps thrown to me by those who do so at their discretion. An awful way to live!! Especially IF YOU, LIKE ME, work your butt off and give your all to everything you do, no matter what!

    The bottom line is that I am READY, FINALLY, to enter the world with attitude number one, and if I am paying for something, I intend to get my fair share! If I am working toward something and doing a great job, I no longer am willing to let OTHERS DICTATE HOW AND TO WHAT DEGREE I AM RECOGNIZED for such. I have no intention, desire, nor the personality to bulldoze my way through life, and that is not what I am at all suggesting.

    Simply put, if I believe I am morally obligated to receive a service, a level of recognition, or simply to be heard on something, I intend to SPEAK UP, and make things happen in my life.

    I was just thinking about what a challenge it would be for me to carry out so many of the great suggestions people here on this forum make to those posting that they have gotten themselves in the sort of situations which require attitude #1 in my above scenario, and whether others, like myself, would find following through with such suggestions inwardly difficult, AND if it is because they, like me, have (until NOW, DAMMIT!) been living a life where OTHERS DECIDE what they will "get" from life, and when it will come.

    Those who go far in this world are those who believe in their own abilities, in their moral rightness, and in treating others with the same degree of fairness and truth. I plan to do such in all situations from now on, despite the fact that exercising those muscles from an emotional standpoint will certainly be challenging. I am up to this challenge because I know I deserve all the good things others who work as hard and as diligently as I do are entitled to...now it is just a matter of doing it. Is this something you, too, have struggled with, OP? Anyone else? Do you think this is WHY people such as myself often get into these challenging situations? I know it seems off-topic, but in a lot of ways, I believe this issue is at the ROOT of many of these scenarios, such as what the OP is dealing with now with her trainer!

    Thanks for hearing me out on this, folks! :į}
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        06-09-2012, 09:32 AM
      #25
    Trained
    I just got back from a show with my reining trainer also. He naturally charged me coaching fees, that totaled $175 for 3 days. Now, he and I would be having a SERIOUS talk if I were going to continue with him. I am not, so the fact that he MAYBE watched me school a total of 1/2 hour over the 3 days, did not help me go over my pattern at all prior to my class (and this was my first ever reining show), was on the phone when he WAS at the schooling ring, and literally all he ever said was "keep loping him". Seriously. I got much more help from friends. Yes, he was supportive when I did OK on my run, even tho he sent me into the arena one horse too early. Not worth $175, but that's ok. I have my horse back, and have no real desire to do reining shows again-unless it is just fun-like freestyle. I also was paying "board" for those 3 days to him, on top of paying for my own stall, plus my own shavings....so I guess I paid for a bag of feed and some hay maybe? I took care of my own horse, they did little at all, since they were busy with the derby horses.
    So, Op, I am with you, and I get it. I split the tack room fee, even tho I kept my stuff on a cart that was only in the tack room at night. I just paid to keep the peace so that I can send the horse back if I ever want to for a tune up. I would have a serious talk with the coach so that everyone is on the same page, if it were me regarding the show.

    I also do not think your success has much to do with your trainer, since you only do one lesson a week.......it is all you.
         
        06-09-2012, 09:47 AM
      #26
    Yearling
    ^ Agreed there! You did it all at the show w/o your trainer's help. YOU have progressed hugely, as stated in the initial post, over a matter of months thru your own time spent riding and only one lesson per week. It does seem that your success IS about 90% YOU & maybe just advise related help from the trainer for the other 10%, which you could, in theory, get any number of other places...you clearly are a very talented rider and are quickly moving through the ranks, proving such!!
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        06-09-2012, 09:57 AM
      #27
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    I just got back from a show with my reining trainer also. He naturally charged me coaching fees, that totaled $175 for 3 days. Now, he and I would be having a SERIOUS talk if I were going to continue with him. I am not, so the fact that he MAYBE watched me school a total of 1/2 hour over the 3 days, did not help me go over my pattern at all prior to my class (and this was my first ever reining show), was on the phone when he WAS at the schooling ring, and literally all he ever said was "keep loping him". Seriously. I got much more help from friends. Yes, he was supportive when I did OK on my run, even tho he sent me into the arena one horse too early. Not worth $175, but that's ok. I have my horse back, and have no real desire to do reining shows again-unless it is just fun-like freestyle. I also was paying "board" for those 3 days to him, on top of paying for my own stall, plus my own shavings....so I guess I paid for a bag of feed and some hay maybe? I took care of my own horse, they did little at all, since they were busy with the derby horses.
    So, Op, I am with you, and I get it. I split the tack room fee, even tho I kept my stuff on a cart that was only in the tack room at night. I just paid to keep the peace so that I can send the horse back if I ever want to for a tune up. I would have a serious talk with the coach so that everyone is on the same page, if it were me regarding the show.

    I also do not think your success has much to do with your trainer, since you only do one lesson a week.......it is all you.
    F-n-B; being your first reining show, despite the CLEARLY UNPROFESSIONAL TREATMENT (arghh!) received from your trainer, how did you do?? Did something at the show cause you to decide it wasn't for you, on that level, anyway, or was it just not your cup of tea once you got there and experienced it?

    I hope the cruddy trainer experience wasn't part of what put you off the whole thing! Anyhow, just thought I'd ask...showing, to me, seems highly stressful under the best circumstances, though many folks just love it...I'm not sure where I stand on it, as I have pro and con ideas about showing which I have yet to sort out...not that I am ANYWHERE near being ready to even think about showing personally!! :0)

    Hope it was a learning experience, and I hope you scored where you felt you should have. From what I can recall of your posts, you have put a ton of work in with your gorgeous horse! It would be great to hear that it paid off for you!!
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        06-09-2012, 12:35 PM
      #28
    Trained
    Thanks for asking, and, in spite of it all, I would recommend my trainer. He really did a great job with my horse, in spite of only having him 7 months, and me only being there less than 10 times to learn to ride him. I get it, really I do, the derby horses are his $$, as are his non-pro level riders, which he knows I have no desire to be. I was very pleased just to get a score, honestly, given the fact I had not been on my horse in a month (or any other), never ridden a pattern, and the horse had never laid eyes on a show ring. Walked up the chute, went in and did his job. Was it pretty? No-he sucked back on his right spin, roll backs were not great, but I was still proud of him. He is a great, very very safe horse, which is what I need. I just decided I do not need the stress, frankly. Why should I pay out the cash stress myself. I will cheer for my BO and friend all day long and be her groom. Perhaps I will do a freestyle here and there, just for fun. Shoot-I could have come home with $$ last week, but the trainers (BO's and mine) poo pooed the idea. 2 people did it, one really sucked, and came home with $700!

    I feel like I have a horse with a great handle, and if anything ever happens, noone can take that away from him, so he will at least be saleable, I would think.He is now back home, sliders off, riding in the back field and doing rollbacks out on trails.

    Anyway-back to the subject......
         
        06-09-2012, 09:41 PM
      #29
    Yearling
    Well, I talked to my trainer today and I feel much, much better. I followed everyones advice and told her I simply couldn't afford the upcoming large show if I went with the barn, I couldn't afford the dayfee, and my finances are really tight right now so I needed to save where I could.

    We didn't get into the last show as after stepping back and reviewing your posts, I realized that her fee wasn't worth arguing over as she did get my mare up there, get my tack in the stall, get me registered and my numbers for me, and got my horse home... and I am responsible as well for not telling her at the show that I wanted to review the patterns, etc...

    She gave me a hug, told me she understood completely, and that I was welcome to stall with the barn at any of the upcoming shows and haul up together, share the tack room, etc... she told me she was pretty busy with her young horses and her summer clients, and I was more than able to compete successfully without that level of guidance, but if I needed help to be sure to ask for it. I was quite relieved... I do enjoy riding with her and did NOT want any drama.

    So all is well, I am going to get my mare ready for congress and hope we have enough solids to get some points there... I am studying all the youtube showmanship videos then enlisting my horsejudging champion daughter to come mercilessly critique me... I am pretty excited.

    And thanks, everyone, for your complements and suggestions, I just love this board, it helps to see all the differing views :)

    Last, Franknbeans, I am glad you know what you want and are pursuing it... I love freestyle reining and sounds like you could have a really fun time doing that -
         
        06-09-2012, 10:03 PM
      #30
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nitefeatherz    
    With grace- the reason the OP is doing so well may not have much to do with the trainer. I have known quite a few people who excelled at what they were doing despite poor trainers simply because they were naturals with a lot of talent. Not saying that its not all the trainer-but in ANY situation I wouldn't tolerate any kind of fee from a trainer that wasn't doing anything on a particular day. If she is being charged hen the trainer owes it to her to give her the attention required. If the trainer is going to be distracted by her own competition or by other clients then that should be taken into account when charging fees.
    I think the main problem here is not laying out expectations as to what is going to happen in exchange for the fees charged: if the trainer expects you to pay them then as a trainer she needs to lay out-preferably in writing- what you are getting for those fees. If you have questions about it then she obviously isn't being clear enough and that needs to be rectified so everyone is on the same page.

    If she has issues with you not wanting her help at the big show I would find another trainer. You can always find another great trainer who wont give you problems.
    Yep totally agree...Sorry, the way I read the OP was that she loved her trainer, which to me says the trainer was doing a great job preparing her. I love my trainer because I feel like he gets me and my horse well prepared prior to shows...guess they aren't all like that.
         

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