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This was UNACCEPTABLE!

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        03-12-2013, 07:28 PM
      #41
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phly    
    Size and age are only a limitation when it's an extreme. Our daughter, now 8, broke her first pony from unhandled to riding mostly by her self when she was 6. She also tought her new pony ground manners, which were horrible to say the least and the pony is stubborn as all heck.
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    Your daughter did this at age 6?! I am impressed to say the least! I hope our daughter does this as well.
    Stichy likes this.
         
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        03-12-2013, 07:36 PM
      #42
    Yearling
    I'm glad you're working on fixing it! Clem bit me ONCE, when I first got her and was cinching her up. She got a good smack in the face for it. Never did it again.

    Recently, I was out in pasture and one of my BO's horses got all up in my face. I stomped and waved my arm at him - usually sufficient to get a horse to back off, and I don't have to touch it (since it's not my horse). He pinned his ears, raised his head, opened his mouth - And I turned to him, shouted "Don't you even THINK about it!" And stomped at him a bunch of times, whilst flailing my arms about and shouting about how if he even thinks about putting his mouth on me my horse will lay into him because she's a jealous horse who also happens to be queen of the pasture and MUCH larger than him. (She wouldn't really... Probably... But boy does she chase the horses away from me. How DARE they request my attention).

    He threw his head and turned and trotted a few steps away with his head down, lip licking. Your case is a bit more extreme, but believe me it does work! And I'm glad it did - not going to lie, it's scary to have a horse act like that to you! Especially when you don't know it very well. I wish you the best of luck with your (sometimes) brat ;)
         
        03-12-2013, 08:14 PM
      #43
    Weanling
    Thank you! I'm not going to be able to do anything with him since I'm going to my cousin's birthday dinner. But tomorrow....tomorrow we will see if he's still the sweetheart he was yesterday.
         
        03-12-2013, 11:42 PM
      #44
    Trained
    Sounds like are you on the right track and boy is it nice to hear someone that can give us information and is willing to read what is written and is willing to try it, no excuses! :) Good on you.

    I don't know if I would have gotten all that excited at Fleet about the food thing. Your reaction should suit the misbehavior and the horse's existing level of training/response. If Fleet is usually responsive, a firm voice and moving him to his feeding area may have been enough. If you are always in their face, then the effect tends to diminish.

    I agree also about the ugly looks -- don't allow them and definitely don't reward them, but you have already indicated that you will be more attentive to that in future.

    I know what you mean about "wanting him to try something," and we know it's the wrong attitude to have, but I hear you about wanting to know that it will work. Being confident in what your reactions will be if/when there is misbehavior will help you, so keep that "I'm pissed at you" attitude just behind your calm exterior at all time for instant access! :)

    You know, I've had this same mare for about 7 years now and she is very good, but I am still on the watch at all times for goof ups and hissy days. They still come from time to time and she still gets sh*t for it. Especially those windy spring/fall days when horses tend to forget themselves in the paddock, and my mare will turn her butt to me. She's not doing it out of any aggression, she just forgets, but I still won't allow it. All rules are enforced, always.
         
        03-13-2013, 01:11 AM
      #45
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Serenity616    
    A horse that knows it's power/strength is definitely scary! I would recommend not hitting him on the nose though. That can often lead to a headshy horse. I would try making him move his feet or back up. Best of luck to you!
    COMPLETELY agree. Do not repeatedly hit a horse on it's face. Their nose is a very sensitive part of their body. Back him up and move his feet. This has been said, but I can put it in some more detail if you want. Yank on his leadrope and say in a firm tone (but not screaming) "Back!". Make him do this for at LEAST five steps and then halt him. Make him stand there. As is normal, he will probably throw up his head and be a general nuisance. Ignore it and make him back more. I know it's super scary when a girl has to work with a half-ton animal that tries to hurt her (for now), but don't let him see that you're afraid. It's easy to give up and run away. But kudos to you for making him realize what he is doing is wrong. Another tip I can give you is to circle him repeatedly. He will soon realize that he has to do boring circles if he bites. Best of luck! Also, maybe try getting a trainer if the problem increases. Make sure there are no health issues also. :) <3
         
        03-13-2013, 06:04 AM
      #46
    Trained
    I haven't read all the posts above. Horses nip, but smacking them in the nose isn't the way to go, IMO. Youngsters seem to always "try you" (at least once) by lunging at you - one's size doesn't matter. And, no - it is not acceptable - it is exceedingly dangerous. I have a rule, I will not work around my horses if and when I lose my temper. However, if they lunge at me at liberty (I work a lot at liberty) - I immediatly launched into a pre-scripted "mad as he**" act (which is easy, b/c it does tend to make me pretty angry). I always keep a training whip w me when w a younster and I use it to back up my idle threats while I keep them moving ( I do not make contact w the whip), and I make them keep moving and listening until they look fearfull and/or bewildered (If you are light handed as I am, they get bewildered when mrs. Hyde comes out to play).....aanndd...keep them moving until they look like and are - really regretting it (i.e., sorry). Done. I turn the page - no more yelling, finished. I accept thier apology and go back to quiet sweet "Dr. Jekyll". It is very rare they try it again. What works for a youngster generally works for others.
         
        03-13-2013, 06:29 AM
      #47
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    I haven't read all the posts above. Horses nip, but smacking them in the nose isn't the way to go, IMO. Youngsters seem to always "try you" (at least once) by lunging at you - one's size doesn't matter. And, no - it is not acceptable - it is exceedingly dangerous. I have a rule, I will not work around my horses if and when I lose my temper. However, if they lunge at me at liberty (I work a lot at liberty) - I immediatly launched into a pre-scripted "mad as he**" act (which is easy, b/c it does tend to make me pretty angry). I always keep a training whip w me when w a younster and I use it to back up my idle threats while I keep them moving ( I do not make contact w the whip), and I make them keep moving and listening until they look fearfull and/or bewildered (If you are light handed as I am, they get bewildered when mrs. Hyde comes out to play).....aanndd...keep them moving until they look like and are - really regretting it (i.e., sorry). Done. I turn the page - no more yelling, finished. I accept thier apology and go back to quiet sweet "Dr. Jekyll". It is very rare they try it again. What works for a youngster generally works for others.
    This this this this this this this.

    I really cannot emphasize it enough.

    I have an incredibly sensitive young Thoroughbred that we are pretty sure has had someone do something awful to her at some stage [loooong story]... anyway... I don't CARE about her past, if she is rude to me she faces the consequences. The first and only time she ever tried to bite me, I made her think I was going to eat her. I didn't make contact with any part of my body, or with the stick, or with the lead [I always carry a stick when I'm handling horses I'm not 100% sure of], but she sure as heck thought I was going to eat her.

    The reaction will be HUGE if you play your cards right, but don't feel bad! I'm not above giving my horse a good hard clobber - even on the face - depending on the horse. I don't hit Magic if I can avoid it, but I have given her more good hard yanks on the lead than I can count, and I've hunted her up in the pasture and the round pen both. My gelding, OTOH, gets whalloped if he so much as looks at me wrong. He is pushier, and can handle it. The force of the hit depends on the severity of the offense of course. A light tap for a sideways look, an all-my-strength-wielding-a-dressage-whip crack on the hindquarter [or neck or shoulder or etc etc] for anything that's actually dangerous.

    My horses ALWAYS, the moment I drop my energy and stop delivering consequences, drop their heads and come to me. The low head is key - that is a sign of submission. "You're the boss, I feel safe with you, so you can watch for the lions and tigers, okay?"
         
        03-13-2013, 05:38 PM
      #48
    Weanling
    Major update here!!!!

    Well, after the cousin party thing, I went to check on the equines. They came over to me but when I reached out to pat Luca, he made his pissy face at me. HOW DARE YOU PIN THOSE EARS AT ME, MISTER! I fumed at him in a normal-loud but raging mad voice. His head swung at me and he lunged. THAT IS ENOUGH!! I hollered, ripping my arms up into the air, jumping up high, lashing at the air with a lead rope that was in my hand. And boy did that horse run. He staggered a few metres and came to a stop, head down, by the fence, not making eye contact. About 10 seconds later I walked over to him like nothing ever happened. He turned his head a little and made the feeblest pissy face I've ever seen on a horse. OH NO YOU DON'T! I scolded him in a stern voice. He immediately lowered his head, put his ears back to their normal position and just stood there, looking defeated. I extended my hand and he sniffed it respectfully. I gave him a quick pat on the neck, said Good Boy in a calm voice and left.

    And this morning, I went to check on him to give him a quick pat before I left for school, and he put his ears back. Just put them back, no real glare, no threatening movements. But still. NO. Don't DO THAT. I KNOW IT'S MORNING BUT KEEP THOSE EARS UP!! He ignored me! So I gave the ground a big STOMP! With my gumboot. He raised his head with an unsure glare. STOP THAT, LUCA! YOU ARE NOT A MARE! (I just said anything that came to my MAD mind ) He lowered his head, ears pricked at me and gave me a small apologising nudge. I gave him one pat, went away for a few steps, came back. A tiny little ears-back motion from Luca. AH, AH. NOPE, LUCA! I said in a warning voice. He corrected his ears and stood there, looking at me intently. I invited him to me and he calmly walked over without a glare. I scratched him by the withers and he rested his muzzle cautiously on my shoulder. I said my goodbyes and went after a bit of scratching his withers.

    Did I do anything wrong this time? I think I might have...but I see a change in Luca's behaviour!
         
        03-13-2013, 05:50 PM
      #49
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher5    
    Well, after the cousin party thing, I went to check on the equines. They came over to me but when I reached out to pat Luca, he made his pissy face at me. HOW DARE YOU PIN THOSE EARS AT ME, MISTER! I fumed at him in a normal-loud but raging mad voice. His head swung at me and he lunged. THAT IS ENOUGH!! I hollered, ripping my arms up into the air, jumping up high, lashing at the air with a lead rope that was in my hand. And boy did that horse run. He staggered a few metres and came to a stop, head down, by the fence, not making eye contact. About 10 seconds later I walked over to him like nothing ever happened. He turned his head a little and made the feeblest pissy face I've ever seen on a horse. OH NO YOU DON'T! I scolded him in a stern voice. He immediately lowered his head, put his ears back to their normal position and just stood there, looking defeated. I extended my hand and he sniffed it respectfully. I gave him a quick pat on the neck, said Good Boy in a calm voice and left.

    And this morning, I went to check on him to give him a quick pat before I left for school, and he put his ears back. Just put them back, no real glare, no threatening movements. But still. NO. Don't DO THAT. I KNOW IT'S MORNING BUT KEEP THOSE EARS UP!! He ignored me! So I gave the ground a big STOMP! With my gumboot. He raised his head with an unsure glare. STOP THAT, LUCA! YOU ARE NOT A MARE! (I just said anything that came to my MAD mind ) He lowered his head, ears pricked at me and gave me a small apologising nudge. I gave him one pat, went away for a few steps, came back. A tiny little ears-back motion from Luca. AH, AH. NOPE, LUCA! I said in a warning voice. He corrected his ears and stood there, looking at me intently. I invited him to me and he calmly walked over without a glare. I scratched him by the withers and he rested his muzzle cautiously on my shoulder. I said my goodbyes and went after a bit of scratching his withers.

    Did I do anything wrong this time? I think I might have...but I see a change in Luca's behaviour!
    Yes! That is exactly what we wanted you to do! The head down shows that he's understanding that YOU are becoming the boss. You startled him, that's for sure, and after a few more of those he'll think twice before trying to bite!

    About the second bit - Was he pinning his ears, or just having them back? With Clem, I allow her to have her ears wherever - UNLESS she pins them (which is rare). She's not allowed to pin them at me. After all, they lay their ears back for other reasons than aggression too. I would say that if they are back (NOT pinned) and there isn't any other threatening body language he's fine - but the MOMENT he decides to escalate that....

    Then again, since your horse is being so aggressive, you might *want* to correct even just ears being back and not pinned. I'm sure others will chime in with some advice. :)

    I'm so glad you're making progress with him!
         
        03-13-2013, 05:54 PM
      #50
    Weanling
    Thank you, Shoebox! Luca normally has his ears tipped back a little because he's quite a relaxed dude, but he just pinned them back a bit more when I approached him this morning. But yes! When I used my stern mad voice, he immediately put them forwards, looking at me with a "LOOK AT ME, I'm not making a pissy face! Look at me! You can stop scolding me now" look on his face, so I stop scolding and he comes over to say "sorry"
         

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